How do I rig up an ultrasound emitter with a with a parabolic dish?

ShadyTrollShadyTroll Regular
edited March 2012 in Life
This would be to affect dogs & it would be directed through the neighbors window. The goal is to make them bark not stop it. I was reading the ultrasound transmitter should be at 25-30 KHz. The point of all this would be to make the dogs bark while they are indoors so hopefully, the neighbors will train them. They leave the dogs outside all day & force the neighbors to listen to the dogs bark so they need to be forced to listen to the barking inside their home at night. Maybe then they will train the damn dogs.

Comments

  • DaktologistDaktologist Global Moderator
    edited September 2011
    From past experience with pissing around with a speaker and signal generator, high frequency sounds don't pass through walls or windows well over long distances. You would have to have it rather loud to have any effect. On the other hand low frequency sounds travel well over long distance with very little power input.

    It's doable but will need some experimentation to get it right.
  • ShadyTrollShadyTroll Regular
    edited September 2011
    From past experience with pissing around with a speaker and signal generator, high frequency sounds don't pass through walls or windows well over long distances. You would have to have it rather loud to have any effect. On the other hand low frequency sounds travel well over long distance with very little power input.

    It's doable but will need some experimentation to get it right.

    I will take the time to experiment. What materials do I use for this & how do I put it all together? I got this idea off another forum & I registered to ask the poster what materials need to be bought & how to put it all together but I got an unsatisfactory answer. All they said was they put the device together using random household items they had. So helpful. :rolleyes:
  • DaktologistDaktologist Global Moderator
    edited September 2011
    Here is a simple circuit below. You should be able to get the parts at your local electronics store, They are fairly common components.

    whistle.gif

    It uses a 9 volt battery for a power supply. To alter the frequency range you can change the 10 nF capacitor to a different value. For example if you were to increase the freq you would decrease the value of the capacitor to say 8 nF or to decrease freq, increase the capacitor value to 12 nF.

    The circuit is small enough to put in front of a reflector, which can be aimed at your intended target. If you have any trouble just ask and I will try and help.
  • ShadyTrollShadyTroll Regular
    edited September 2011
    Pic isn't showing up.
  • DaktologistDaktologist Global Moderator
    edited September 2011
  • ShadyTrollShadyTroll Regular
    edited September 2011
    Yeah, I fucked up the thread title. XD

    I'm going to be honest here & say I don't understand any of that. XD
  • fagfag Regular
    edited October 2011
    I did the same exact thing. I got on an audio program and made a bunch of random sounds, all 18kHz and above. Then I put them on shuffle/repeat, patched my laptop into a stereo, cranked the volume, and pointed the speakers towards the dogs.

    Two things happened.
    1. The dogs did fuckall
    2. The amp in the stereo burned up


    If I were to do it over, I'd go with a simpler approach.

    SilentWhistle.gif
    mini%20air%20compressor_495.jpg


    http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1263/how-can-you-focus-sound
  • jumper1127jumper1127 Semo-Regulars
    edited February 2012
    What is the range of the ultrasonic emitter? I hope to achieve a range of 80ft with detectable amplitude within the range. How should I modify the circuit in #4 to adjust the range? Change the battery or piezo? Thanks a lot!
  • easy-eeasy-e Acolyte
    edited February 2012
    jumper1127 wrote: »
    What is the range of the ultrasonic emitter? I hope to achieve a range of 80ft with detectable amplitude within the range. How should I modify the circuit in #4 to adjust the range? Change the battery or piezo? Thanks a lot!
    I would recommend using this schematic instead. http://ecelab.com/circuit-ultrasonic-t.htm The 2n2222 will give you the extra boost you need. Any NPN transistor should work.

    This is a good site for the calculations: http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/555timer.htm#astable

    A tweeter from a speaker system might be better for your application because you are in the 25khz to 30khz range instead of 40khz. As for range, more power. I would have to agree that high frequencies don't travel through walls well. Trying to bounce the signal off of a satellite dish is probably not going to do any good either.

    Sound pressure goes down by 6db every time you double the distance. At 3 feet you might have 100db, at 6ft, 84db, 12ft 78db, 24ft 72db, 48ft 66db, 96ft 60db. And that is without obstructions. You lose about 40db in 96 feet so to have 100db you would need to start out around 140db.

    From http://willapse.hubpages.com/hub/Speaker-Watt
    How Watts translate into Loudness
    A pair of reasonably sensitive speakers deliver the following decibel levels at a distance of about one meter.

    Power/ Decibels

    2 Watts = 93 decibels
    4 Watts = 96 decibels
    8 Watts = 99 decibels
    16 Watts = 102 decibels
    32 Watts = 105 decibels
    64 Watts = 108 decibels
    128 Watts = 111 decibels
    256 Watts = 114 decibels
    512 Watts= 117 decibels
    1024 Watts = 120 decibels

    For Comparison

    10db = normal human breathing
    60db = normal human conversation
    110db = power saw, car horn, shouting in ear,
    120db = jet aircraft close to, emergency vehicle siren, rock concert

    Overall I would recommend placing it closer to their house if at all possible.
  • jumper1127jumper1127 Semo-Regulars
    edited February 2012
    Thanks a lot for the great information!

    Actually I'm not trying to piss off my neighbor's dogs. I'm working in a team to build a position system for a bunch of robots. Our idea was to use four ultrasonic beacons which emits sound waves from four corners of a basketball court. The coverage is the entire court. The beacons have distinct frequencies. The robots on the field have receivers so that they can measure the distance between them and the beacons. Using multiple distances they can figure out their positions relative to a fixed reference point.

    I guess we could modify the circuit in http://ecelab.com/circuit-ultrasonic-t.htm to achieve different frequencies. We only need to have more power to achieve the range, correct?
  • easy-eeasy-e Acolyte
    edited February 2012
    jumper1127 wrote: »
    Thanks a lot for the great information!

    Actually I'm not trying to piss off my neighbor's dogs. I'm working in a team to build a position system for a bunch of robots. Our idea was to use four ultrasonic beacons which emits sound waves from four corners of a basketball court. The coverage is the entire court. The beacons have distinct frequencies. The robots on the field have receivers so that they can measure the distance between them and the beacons. Using multiple distances they can figure out their positions relative to a fixed reference point.
    How are you going to measure the distance? Normally with ultrasonic distance is calculated using time of flight. This is why the emitter and receiver are unusually positioned directly next to each other facing the same direction. Send pulse -> wait for reflection -> time of flight*speed of sound = distance.

    You would have to figure out how to measure the amplitude of the signal. Could be fairly difficult...I've never researched this as a possibility. If you have 2 receivers you can compute the direction because one will receive the signal before the other. Not sure how distance would work.
    jumper1127 wrote: »
    I guess we could modify the circuit in http://ecelab.com/circuit-ultrasonic-t.htm to achieve different frequencies. We only need to have more power to achieve the range, correct?
    In theory yes.
  • jumper1127jumper1127 Semo-Regulars
    edited February 2012
    We were thinking to separate the receiver from the emitter. The emitter sends a sound wave from one end and the receiver receives the signal at the other end. The starting time of the signal will be incorporated in the sound wave or sent by some other method to the receiver, which is able to compute the travel time of the signal. Speed of sound times travel time will give us the distance between the two ends. Does this sound like a feasible idea to you? We are very inexperienced with this kind of work. We'd really appreciate any confirmation before actually working on it.
  • SpinsterSpinster Regular
    edited February 2012
    I downloaded a program called Audacity, you can make tones with it. I found 8000Hz was rather unkind on the ears and 13000Hz just hurts. But you cant go higher than that, It all depends on your speakers.
  • jumper1127jumper1127 Semo-Regulars
    edited February 2012
    Thank you very much for your reply!

    The difficulty in my project is that there are multiple moving objects I need to detect on a field. I believe the ultrasonic tape and range finder can only measure distance between itself an object in front of it. I will only build one sonar to broadcast ultrasound to the receivers, but haven't figured out a way to do that yet.

    Do you know if there is a way to send ultrasound in 360 degrees around it? Due to beam patterns of transducers, I guess I can't achieve that by using one transducer.
    chippy wrote: »
  • jumper1127jumper1127 Semo-Regulars
    edited February 2012
    Spinster wrote: »
    I downloaded a program called Audacity, you can make tones with it. I found 8000Hz was rather unkind on the ears and 13000Hz just hurts. But you cant go higher than that, It all depends on your speakers.

    That might be an easy way to produce ultrasound. Which speaker did you use? Was it able to broadcast ultrasound in a wide range?
  • jumper1127jumper1127 Semo-Regulars
    edited February 2012
    easy-e wrote: »
    How are you going to measure the distance? Normally with ultrasonic distance is calculated using time of flight. This is why the emitter and receiver are unusually positioned directly next to each other facing the same direction. Send pulse -> wait for reflection -> time of flight*speed of sound = distance.

    You would have to figure out how to measure the amplitude of the signal. Could be fairly difficult...I've never researched this as a possibility. If you have 2 receivers you can compute the direction because one will receive the signal before the other. Not sure how distance would work.


    In theory yes.

    I built the transmitter and receiver based on the circuit diagrams on ECELab.com. When the two were close to each other, they work properly. When I separated them two meters apart, the receiver could hardly pick up any signal. I checked the receiver's circuit, the connections were fine. But for some reason the second amplifier did not increase the amplitude of the signal. Instead, the amplitude decreased. I checked the output from Pin 6 of the second amplifier. The decoder was not used in the tests because I haven't found an NE567 yet. Do you have any idea why the second amplifier wasn't working? I replaced the 741 with a new one, but the problem persisted. Thanks!
  • SpinsterSpinster Regular
    edited February 2012
    jumper1127 wrote: »
    That might be an easy way to produce ultrasound. Which speaker did you use? Was it able to broadcast ultrasound in a wide range?
    Was just my laptop speakers lol If they can do 18khz I cant see why some high quality speakers couldnt.
  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited February 2012
    It's too bad the OP scuttled back under a zok. This thread has developed fairly well.
  • MiluardoMiluardo Acolyte
    edited March 2012
    It's too bad the op doesn't realize that tormenting and confusing dogs make them impossible to train. Not to mention will cause the owners to punish them at night when op won't turn off the machine. And what are you going to do with the diabolic dish ? Put it on the dog? Lawl. I dont think op can even read the diagram.
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