Query Regarding Plant Extracts

Psychlonic

So basically I'm looking at aqueous methanol extracts in various drug studies that generally involve the dried plant component being dried, crushed, then an extract created by percolation after being placed in an alcohol/water solution, which is then concentrated via evaporation. What I'm wondering is why so often methanol is used for this. Is there a reason as far as reliability goes here or is this just a cost/availability matter? Is there any reason ethanol should not be considered in extractions like this?

abrn

I recently read that methanol is used because
a) it works better
b) ethanol is illegal in some states ( and denatured alcohol they sell in these state will kill u)
1) methanol will also kill you and make you blind so alcohol is better

MayorofMonkeytown

Alcohol is used because it is a powerful solvent and happens to be readily available.

Methanol has a very high alcohol content and you can evapourate it off at very low temperatures. I am confident that there will be residues of the methanol left; but if your putting drugs in ya body why would you care.

Psychlonic

Well the procedures I'm looking at specifically use an 80:20 ratio of methanol to water. I've also read about chloroform being used in this solvent sometimes. But it seems to me that, at a crude level, you could pour 80% alcohol into a coffee filter filled with crushed, dry plant matter and simply evaporate (any no-heat method) the end product until you're left with your dried extract. Mix with a buffer and shoot up.

To be honest I'm curious about this more at the pharmaceutical level than just getting high, although it could certainly be used for that as well. Not everyone can or would be willing to acquire methanol but something like Everclear (North American brand) or abroad equivalents are common in the 80% range, not denatured, low in congeners, and seems like it would make some ideas I have smoother for others to replicate and confirm rather than simply using lab grade methanol.

Inspiration for this method are recent studies such as this that show interesting results and would be an available drug to a lot of people. If nothing else, the studies would be more interesting than rehashing methods over and over for controlled substances, right? And being a nature freak, it's cool to think that if you absolutely had to, you could potentially make an equivalent to morphine for whatever reason you might have in an emergency situation. It's potential fresh content, and as I'm diving deep into botany and natural poisons, medicine, and foods anyhow this connects. Not to mention that unless you live in an area with really flexible laws on what constitutes an illegal drug, nobody can say anything about possession.

Now obviously, this is because the drugs are so new and experimental that they're not even named. There are inherent side effect concerns in using any of them. But I'd like to experiment - not necessarily on myself - but somehow.

MayorofMonkeytown

They rehash the methods; but before something can be approved for human testing theres many many loopholes to go through.

In the old days; you'd just man up and do it - consequences be dammed. But for the product to have a wide application we need to know that it doesnt cause kidney failure after 2 weeks or something similar.

You wouldnt struggle too hard to find people willing to try you're free morphine though.
I'd also be cautious of what you are actually buying when you buy the methanol - check the ingredients and understand the acutal values of the solution; it may already be diluted beyond 80:20.

Darth Beaver

Not to derail this thread but as believe in a balanced approach of positive and negative feedback. So in light of all the negative feedback MoMT has received from me recently I would like to point out that this post is a really good contribution to our community. Keep going like this mate and you will quickly erase any taint associated with your account. :thumbsup:

Psychlonic

I do have some methanol already on hand - I think it's 95% (I'll have to check, it's lab grade with the info paper still banded on the side of the bottle) - that would be enough for several trials. I was planning to mix it with boric acid awhile back for a stupid project involving a flamethrower that shot green fire but now I'm glad I didn't bother. I might try a few prelim tests using that and if it goes well, move to ethanol and dilute the dose to be smaller just in case and observe what happens. There seems to be a wide gap between the effective dose and the lethal dose so with some caution and common sense this shouldn't be a disaster. In the meantime I'll read up on my organic chemistry I guess, I don't want to walk into any ridiculous, preventable situations in this.

Thanks for the input man.

chippy

TheDarkRodent wrote: »

Not to derail this thread but as believe in a balanced approach of positive and negative feedback. So in light of all the negative feedback MoMT has received from me recently I would like to point out that this post is a really good contribution to our community. Keep going like this mate and you will quickly erase any taint associated with your account. :thumbsup:

This^

I've seen MoMT make some good posts, and I've said as much in TS. It's just a shame every so often he ruins it with so obvious a drama starter post.

Leave the drama in Totse2 and keep posting like this here.

MayorofMonkeytown

On topic:

I just read the paper's discussion again in a bit more detail and you need to be careful about the other toxic organic compounds. I'm not an American so I had no idea what the plant species was.

Do not ingest this substance. I cannot stress this enough. You are risking death.

Phytolaccine and Phytolaccotoxin are alkoloids and they will be extracted by the methanol. They will not be neutralised. They are highly toxic.

The triple methanol extraction helps to create a solution that wont kill you instantly but your liver would start crying after you're first use and leave you if you decided to abuse this.


Aside:

This is confusing as all hell because i think i am a consistent poster.

I catch flak for drama starting but im begining to think that perhaps the definition of drama is a bit too broad here; I will happily conceed that posing rhetorical questions or disagreeing with people can be provocative but with a mature mindset it really cant be called drama. If anything im more likely to go off topic than i am to go on drama.

Psychlonic

Right, I'm already aware of the toxic effects. The plant in question is the pokeweed, the berries in particular are extremely poisonous and cannot be safely ingested by mammals because of the two substances you mentioned. The whole point is to tread the line between deadly and therapeutic. This has been done and tested with substances such as oleander as well in studies combating cancer. I'm aware of the obvious risk. I'm not a chronic drug user and have little interest in recreational use of the drug produced in this particular example. But if a concentration of the toxins can be confirmed, then a relatively safe dosage can be established and the drug administered with, at the very least, minimized risks of death or long term health hazards. If at some point I'm confident enough in what I see, perhaps I'll try a small dose myself. If it works, test over and I'm done with it. I have until next summer to study the matter anyhow as pokeweed flowers are long gone here.

MayorofMonkeytown

Then breed mice and test it that way. Keep a control and disect to look at the livers/organs of the two mice.

Note the differences and know what the implication is.

I'm all for backyard science and it was from home tinkering that industrial chemistry was born; but removing the alkoloids with methanol isnt really doable. I havent done any lab stuff for at least a year or so i cant readily think of a catalyst to bind and extract the toxins - but id say that doing this would be my goal before testing the effects of the final solution withouth the toxic alkoloids.

Psychlonic

For what it's worth, there are other studies that appear related to this one including a hepatoxicity test on rat livers found here that I've took into consideration for all of this as well.

If at the end of the day if I can't reach a final product where both LD50s of the toxins and usable extract are much higher than an effective dose than fuck it. I'll just scrap the idea.

MayorofMonkeytown

Theres a variety of reactions you could use to either catch the LD50's or the alkoloids - i cant recall but theres something i vaugely remember.

Like warming the solution up and mixing it with some lipids for several hours/a day and then stratifying it with an ice bath or centrifuge.

It cannot be done with methanol alone though.