Complete OTC Synthesis of ETN [Published]

LordWormLordWorm Regular
edited November 2011 in Man Cave
I apologize, but I must take this down for now. It may be available at some point in the future.

Comments

  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited March 2011
    -Space reserved for Part 2-
  • jamie madroxjamie madrox Sith Lord
    edited March 2011
    nice guide. definitely gonna try that sometime
  • thewandererthewanderer Regular
    edited March 2011
    It's beautiful.

    This is going straight to the CMS time now.

    EDIT: http://www.totse.info/cms/complete-otc-synthesis-of-etn
  • Chris HansenChris Hansen Regular
    edited March 2011
    Very interesting. I would very much like to try this. When you tell us to cap the jar so fumes dont escape is there any danger of the glass jar exploding because of built up pressure?
  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited March 2011
    Very interesting. I would very much like to try this. When you tell us to cap the jar so fumes dont escape is there any danger of the glass jar exploding because of built up pressure?

    I believe I did specify to cap it loosely. ;)

    But even with a tightly sealed container, I'd say no. The reaction does not directly generate any gas, so the only pressure increase will come from adiabatic heating. We're talking 20*C to ~50*C here, so it will be minimal.

    The alternative is to slowly add AN to cold sulfuric in an open container, keeping the temperature down to prevent the nitric from evaporating out of the mixture too quickly. This is slow, prone to high losses, and leaves lots of brown gunk in the mixture if you're starting with drain cleaner grade acid.

    I've tested them all and a quick addition to a semi-closed container is superior in all aspects.
  • GallowsGallows Regular
    edited March 2011
    Very well written guide.
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited March 2011
    Ok so I know fuck all about chemistry but, I am to believe that when the boom boom happens this produces extra O2 like enough to oxidize certain metals? Like Al?

    Get where I'm going with this? Your sig is a clue.
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited March 2011
    Also, the guide? totally awesome. This is what totse was built on.
  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited March 2011
    buddha wrote: »
    Ok so I know fuck all about chemistry but, I am to believe that when the boom boom happens this produces extra O2 like enough to oxidize certain metals? Like Al?

    Yeah, each ETN molecule has one excess oxygen atom in its structure, which can be used to oxidize an active metal such as Al. Adding Al will increase the overall energy output, and slightly decrease the velocity of detonation.

    There are two versions.

    The 'Red Label' is 44.3% and far too dilute for this synthesis; the 'Blue Label' is 94.2% and works well.

    If I were to wager a guess as to why there are multiple versions, it's because the corporate crybabies at Walmart felt that concentrated H2SO4 was too dangerous to have on their shelves, and pressured the manufacturer into producing a 'safer' version.

    Legitimate hardware stores are your best bet for concentrated H2SO4 based drain cleaners.
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited March 2011
    Probably something to include there...

    Hmm, I'm thinking about making this since it seems much safer than TATP. Is this stuff strong enough to set off some ANFO or AN+German dark?
  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited March 2011
    Added a note about the drain cleaner, thanks for reminding me.

    ETN is capable of boosting most secondaries, as it is a very strong explosive with a RE factor of about 1.6. AN+German Dark will be quite sensitive and should only need a gram or so, while ANFO is a bitch to detonate and will likely need 20-30g and very strong confinement.

    You still need a primary to set off the ETN, but the amounts required are comparatively small. 100-200mg of TATP will reliably detonate ETN.
  • buddhabuddha Regular
    edited March 2011
    is part 2 going to include using this stuff? like how to make it useable.

    Basically bomb making for dummies
  • thewandererthewanderer Regular
    edited March 2011
    LordWorm wrote: »

    ETN is capable of boosting most secondaries, as it is a very strong explosive with a RE factor of about 1.6.

    Wow, 1.6? That's some serious stuff for something completely OTC. I like.
  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited March 2011
    buddha wrote: »
    is part 2 going to include using this stuff? like how to make it useable.

    Basically bomb making for dummies

    I was planning to make a separate guide for applications of explosives. Part 2 is only going to cover recrystallization/storage preparation.
    Wow, 1.6? That's some serious stuff for something completely OTC. I like.

    For a comparison to other explosives, here's the RE factor table from Wikipedia. I've verified most of these figures using other sources, so it's quite accurate.

    REfactortable.jpg

    On another note, while driving to college today I passed a convoy of 3 cop cars heading in the opposite direction. I figured they were coming to my place to arrest me for posting such controversial information on the internet. Fortunately, I'm still here. :hai:
  • thewandererthewanderer Regular
    edited March 2011
    I was hoping that there would be more factors on that page, I already knew most of them. They are accurate for the ones that I do know.
    Can't wait for part 2.
  • CrazzyassCrazzyass Regular
    edited March 2011
    Awesome guide man. Can't wait to try it.


    Also, what are you studying?
  • EAPyrotoxEAPyrotox Semo-Regulars
    edited May 2011
    Lord Worm, I really love your first part etn synthesis, and I'm really looking forward to Part 2. you prepared it?

    Thanks, thank you.
  • thewandererthewanderer Regular
    edited September 2011
    When you recrystallize do you use ethanol or acetone as a solvent? Also, do you dissolve in a heated solvent, filter, and then cool the solvent or do you dissolve, filter, and then crash in water?
  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited September 2011
    Acetone is too strong of a solvent, but ethanol and methanol work well. I personally use methanol, as it's the cheapest @ ~$2/L. In a nutshell: Dissolve the crude ETN in heated methanol, add sodium bicarbonate solution to neutralize residual acids, crash into water, filter out the ETN, and optionally wash it with 5% urea solution to stabilize.

    The writeup for the 2nd part is nearly done, and should be posted soon.
  • thewandererthewanderer Regular
    edited September 2011
    Thanks for clearing that up. Still looking forward to part 2.
  • nuclearrabbitnuclearrabbit Semo-Regulars
    edited November 2011
    I've encountered problems with this methodology of synthesis. What I found to be much more fruitful is to use the concentration of your H2SO4 as a limiting reagent. When I was attempting the procedure outlines above I was getting much lower than theoretical yields.
    Has anyone seen what concentrated H2SO4 does to sugar alcohols? It chemically strips them down to pure carbon. This same thirst affects the unreacted and unnitrated erythritol from the moment it is introduced to the mixed acids.
    What I prefer to do is add conc. sulphuric to a mixture of HNO3 and erythritol. This gives the sugar a fighting chance for nitration not desiccation. This may have been a phenomenon contained to myself because I haven't spoken with anyone that tried my same writeup.
  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited November 2011
    Good to see you here NR.
  • chippychippy <b style="color:pink;">Global Moderator</b>
    edited November 2011
    Interesting thread. The only thing I know about chemistry is from the old adage "if it moves it's biology, if it smells it's chemistry and if it doesn't work it's physics"
  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited November 2011
    I've encountered problems with this methodology of synthesis. What I found to be much more fruitful is to use the concentration of your H2SO4 as a limiting reagent. When I was attempting the procedure outlines above I was getting much lower than theoretical yields.

    In my experience, erythritol is only dehydrated by concentrated sulfuric acid at high temperatures; I've never encountered a problem when adding the sugar alcohol directly to slightly chilled mixed acids. Yields are typically 70-80% of theoretical, depending on the batch.
  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited November 2011
    ^Totally off topic but it is good to see you around.
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