I admitted to my mom that I am an atheist

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Comments

  • edited September 2010
    fanglekai wrote: »
    That's not even theism, then. That's not intelligent design, really, either. If you think of god as order, then belief doesn't matter. I forget what your idea is called. I think there's a name for it.

    there probably is, hell if I know the name either though. I got several ideas that I change between as often as my underwear so I dont give myself any kind of title.

    The one fact I truly believe and am sticking to is that there is intelligence to the universe and its not all just random. When I try to go a level deeper and come up with an explanation is when I think my ideas start to not make as much sense.
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    Deism is belief in a god who created the universe then stepped back and let it go. They call it the clockmaker because it's like making a clock, starting it and then letting it run. It's sort of deistic, but not exactly.
  • edited September 2010
    Well I find the idea of a creator to be absolutely impossible. If there's anything remotely close to a god I believe its attached to the universe in one way or another because if you think about it that's the only way it can make sense. If its a creator then where was he BEFORE he created the universe? I know its an elementary schoolers argument but he couldn't exist in nothingness because if he exists then there is existence and if there's existence there's already a universe. So if there is a god he was formed simultaneously with the universe back when the big bang (or however the fuck everything got started) happened and therefore he isn't "the creator".

    I hope that makes sense :p
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    Well I find the idea of a creator to be absolutely impossible. If there's anything remotely close to a god I believe its attached to the universe in one way or another because if you think about it that's the only way it can make sense. If its a creator then where was he BEFORE he created the universe? I know its an elementary schoolers argument but he couldn't exist in nothingness because if he exists then there is existence and if there's existence there's already a universe. So if there is a god he was formed simultaneously with the universe back when the big bang (or however the fuck everything got started) happened and therefore he isn't "the creator".

    I hope that makes sense :p

    The idea of where god came from is intriguing the best answer I can give is that he just is. He's the beginning and the end so to speak. I think it's one of those things that our minds are just to primitive to truly grasp.
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    The idea of where god came from is intriguing the best answer I can give is that he just is. He's the beginning and the end so to speak. I think it's one of those things that our minds are just to primitive to truly grasp.

    Then how does christianity make any sense whatsoever?
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    fanglekai wrote: »
    Then how does christianity make any sense whatsoever?

    The Bible clearly states that there are some things we'll never be able to understand in this world.
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    The Bible clearly states that there are some things we'll never be able to understand in this world.

    You missed my point.

    The problem with all religions is that, as you admitted, we cannot fathom the universe. Since we can't understand the divine why do you think any religion can be even remotely correct? If we're like ants trying to comprehend airplanes, then how can rituals or specific sins even remotely make sense?
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    fanglekai wrote: »
    You missed my point.

    The problem with all religions is that, as you admitted, we cannot fathom the universe. Since we can't understand the divine why do you think any religion can be even remotely correct? If we're like ants trying to comprehend airplanes, then how can rituals or specific sins even remotely make sense?

    Well I think we can gain a basic understanding and just go with what feels right. I believe there are some things we know. I believe it is fact that Jesus came to this earth as the son of God and died for our sins. That much I know. But I speculate on other things that aren't laid out so clearly by God. I believe some things we know and some things we dont.
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    Well I think we can gain a basic understanding and just go with what feels right. I believe there are some things we know. I believe it is fact that Jesus came to this earth as the son of God and died for our sins. That much I know. But I speculate on other things that aren't laid out so clearly by God. I believe some things we know and some things we dont.

    See the problem?
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    fanglekai wrote: »
    See the problem?

    No I dont. I think the eyewitness accounts and other evidence strongly shows that Jesus was the son of God. His Miracles were witnessed by plenty of people and recorded it. You admit he existed right? If you do who do you think he was if he isnt the son of God?
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    No I dont. I think the eyewitness accounts and other evidence strongly shows that Jesus was the son of God. His Miracles were witnessed by plenty of people and recorded it. You admit he existed right? If you do who do you think he was if he isnt the son of God?

    Oh my. First of all I've never seen any proof he existed. The gospels don't count because they were written by people who never met him. No one who wrote about Jesus ever met him.

    Next, the miracles were in the gospels. Can we agree on that? If so, refer back to point 1: no one who ever met Jesus wrote about him. We have 0 eyewitness accounts.

    There may or may not have been an actual person named Jesus of Nazareth (or Joshua or whatever his Jewish name was). If he existed, he was just some dude. I've never seen proof he existed, so I have no idea who he would have been.

    Read this:
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa2.htm
    Jesus-Pagan links
    Parallels between the stories of
    Jesus and Osiris-Dionysus

    horizontal rule

    Sponsored link.

    horizontal rule
    Background:

    Dionysus, a Greek God, and Osiris, an Egyptian God were viewed as mythical characters. Osiris may have been the first god-man. His story has been found recorded in pyramid texts which were written prior to 2,500 BCE. These and other saviors were truly interchangeable. Coins have been found with Dionysus on one side and Mithras on the other. A person who was initiated into one of the mysteries had no difficulty switching to another Pagan mystery religion.

    In the 3rd century CE, these god-men were referred to by the composite name "Osiris-Dionysus." Authors Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy have used this term in their book "The Jesus Mysteries." 1

    horizontal rule
    Life events shared by Osiris, Dionysus and Jesus
    The following stories appear both in the Gospels and in the myths of many of the god-men:
    bullet Conception:
    bullet God was his father. This was believed to be literally true in the case of Osiris-Dionysus; their God came to earth and engaged in sexual intercourse with a human. The father of Jesus is God in the form of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18).
    bullet A human woman, a virgin, was his mother.
    bullet Birth:
    bullet He was born in a cave or cowshed. Luke 2:7 mentions that Jesus was placed in a manger - an eating trough for animals. One early Christian tradition said that the manger was in a cave.
    bullet His birth was prophesized by a star in the heavens.
    bullet Ministry:
    bullet At a marriage ceremony, he performed the miracle of converting water into wine.
    bullet He was powerless to perform miracles in his home town.
    bullet His followers were born-again through baptism in water.
    bullet He rode triumphantly into a city on a donkey. Tradition records that the inhabitants waved palm leaves.
    bullet He had 12 disciples.
    bullet He was accused of licentious behavior.
    bullet Execution, resurrection, etc:
    bullet He was killed near the time of the Vernal Equinox, about MAR-21.
    bullet He died "as a sacrifice for the sins of the world." 1
    bullet He was hung on a tree, stake, or cross.
    bullet After death, he descended into hell.
    bullet On the third day after his death, he returned to life.
    bullet The cave where he was laid was visited by three of his female followers
    bullet He later ascended to heaven.
    bullet His titles:
    bullet God made flesh.
    bullet Savior of the world.
    bullet Son of God.
    bullet Beliefs about the God-man:
    bullet He is "God made man," and equal to the Father.
    bullet He will return in the last days.
    bullet He will judge the human race at that time.
    bullet Humans are separated from God by original sin. The god-man's sacrificial death reunites the believer with God and atones for the original sin.

    All of the Pagan myths had been circulating for centuries before Jesus birth (circa 4 to 7 BCE). It is obvious that if any copying occurred, it was the followers of Jesus incorporating into his biography the myths and legends of Osiris-Dionysus, not vice-versa.

    horizontal rule
    Sponsored link:

    horizontal rule
    Reference:

    1. Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy, "The Jesus Mysteries: Was the 'original Jesus' a Pagan god?" Acacia Press, (1999). Read reviews or order this book safely from Amazon.com online book store
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    fanglekai wrote: »
    Oh my. First of all I've never seen any proof he existed. The gospels don't count because they were written by people who never met him. No one who wrote about Jesus ever met him.

    Next, the miracles were in the gospels. Can we agree on that? If so, refer back to point 1: no one who ever met Jesus wrote about him. We have 0 eyewitness accounts.

    There may or may not have been an actual person named Jesus of Nazareth (or Joshua or whatever his Jewish name was). If he existed, he was just some dude. I've never seen proof he existed, so I have no idea who he would have been.

    Read this:
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa2.htm
    Jesus-Pagan links
    Parallels between the stories of
    Jesus and Osiris-Dionysus

    horizontal rule

    Sponsored link.

    horizontal rule
    Background:

    Dionysus, a Greek God, and Osiris, an Egyptian God were viewed as mythical characters. Osiris may have been the first god-man. His story has been found recorded in pyramid texts which were written prior to 2,500 BCE. These and other saviors were truly interchangeable. Coins have been found with Dionysus on one side and Mithras on the other. A person who was initiated into one of the mysteries had no difficulty switching to another Pagan mystery religion.

    In the 3rd century CE, these god-men were referred to by the composite name "Osiris-Dionysus." Authors Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy have used this term in their book "The Jesus Mysteries." 1

    horizontal rule
    Life events shared by Osiris, Dionysus and Jesus
    The following stories appear both in the Gospels and in the myths of many of the god-men:
    bullet Conception:
    bullet God was his father. This was believed to be literally true in the case of Osiris-Dionysus; their God came to earth and engaged in sexual intercourse with a human. The father of Jesus is God in the form of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18).
    bullet A human woman, a virgin, was his mother.
    bullet Birth:
    bullet He was born in a cave or cowshed. Luke 2:7 mentions that Jesus was placed in a manger - an eating trough for animals. One early Christian tradition said that the manger was in a cave.
    bullet His birth was prophesized by a star in the heavens.
    bullet Ministry:
    bullet At a marriage ceremony, he performed the miracle of converting water into wine.
    bullet He was powerless to perform miracles in his home town.
    bullet His followers were born-again through baptism in water.
    bullet He rode triumphantly into a city on a donkey. Tradition records that the inhabitants waved palm leaves.
    bullet He had 12 disciples.
    bullet He was accused of licentious behavior.
    bullet Execution, resurrection, etc:
    bullet He was killed near the time of the Vernal Equinox, about MAR-21.
    bullet He died "as a sacrifice for the sins of the world." 1
    bullet He was hung on a tree, stake, or cross.
    bullet After death, he descended into hell.
    bullet On the third day after his death, he returned to life.
    bullet The cave where he was laid was visited by three of his female followers
    bullet He later ascended to heaven.
    bullet His titles:
    bullet God made flesh.
    bullet Savior of the world.
    bullet Son of God.
    bullet Beliefs about the God-man:
    bullet He is "God made man," and equal to the Father.
    bullet He will return in the last days.
    bullet He will judge the human race at that time.
    bullet Humans are separated from God by original sin. The god-man's sacrificial death reunites the believer with God and atones for the original sin.

    All of the Pagan myths had been circulating for centuries before Jesus birth (circa 4 to 7 BCE). It is obvious that if any copying occurred, it was the followers of Jesus incorporating into his biography the myths and legends of Osiris-Dionysus, not vice-versa.

    horizontal rule
    Sponsored link:

    horizontal rule
    Reference:

    1. Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy, "The Jesus Mysteries: Was the 'original Jesus' a Pagan god?" Acacia Press, (1999). Read reviews or order this book safely from Amazon.com online book store

    hmm Ill give you this that link is very interesting. I'm gonna have to read up on this further.
  • edited September 2010
    fanglekai wrote: »
    You missed my point.

    The problem with all religions is that, as you admitted, we cannot fathom the universe. Since we can't understand the divine why do you think any religion can be even remotely correct? If we're like ants trying to comprehend airplanes, then how can rituals or specific sins even remotely make sense?

    It's only because religion has survived as a part of peoples lives since ancient times. It's always been that way as long as anyone can remember, so they think it's normal.

    If you tried turning a rational, modern person who had never heard of this stuff before onto the Bible, he'd think you were a dumbass.
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    Haha yeah, I guess it works that way too.
  • edited September 2010
    No I dont. I think the eyewitness accounts and other evidence strongly shows that Jesus was the son of God. His Miracles were witnessed by plenty of people and recorded it. You admit he existed right? If you do who do you think he was if he isnt the son of God?

    from my point of view.

    At best he was a man with supernatural powers that allowed him to perform those miracles which people misconceived as the powers of god and therefore mistook him as the son of god. At worst he never existed at all, or he was a con man and the whole thing was an elaborate ruse.

    The whole saving us from our sin thing I find bafflingly absurd, maybe its just that I dont understand it and maybe you could clear me up.

    But from what I understand we are all born with sin, no matter what. Therefore its not enough to just try and be a good person and do whats right in your heart, you need to accept Jesus as your savior so that he can save you from your sin. What I dont get is why accept him at all? The end result of this scenario is that you are being paid with redemption to be his cheerleader. That doesn't seem very godly to me, if he really wanted to save us from our sin why is that gift not given to us unconditionally?
  • edited September 2010
    No I dont. I think the eyewitness accounts and other evidence strongly shows that Jesus was the son of God. His Miracles were witnessed by plenty of people and recorded it. You admit he existed right? If you do who do you think he was if he isnt the son of God?

    An ancient book, comprised of different stories written at different times by different people for different reasons and you have confidence in it's accuracy?
  • Darth BeaverDarth Beaver Meine Ehre heißt Treue
    edited September 2010
    I didnt say they were all Christians:facepalm: Your chart proves that nearly 90% of people believe in a God of some kind.

    You said god and the bible which when put in that context is exclusive to Christianity. Nice try, thanks for playing, don't come back.
  • DaktologistDaktologist Global Moderator
    edited September 2010
    If the universe was created by someone (which i dont believe) then why do people die from cancer and other diseases or are born with birth defects, surely if there was a creator then he/she would ensure that imperfections wouldn't exist. Evolution explains the defects in all creatures and the reason that nothing is absolutely perfect in every way. We evolved in such a way that it was inevitable that imperfections were carried on through the evolution of any particular species.
  • MegalodonMegalodon Regular
    edited September 2010
    Prove he doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the atheist since there the ones going against what the entire world has believed since the beginning of time. What about all the eye witnesses of the miracles Jesus performed? What about near death experience's. Also if Deism makes sense why wouldn't Christianity or other religions? Evolution has proven itself to be a flawed theory. The existence of God is so obvious that Atheism is the belief that makes no sense. I think it takes more faith to an Atheist than to believe in God. Notice how our planet was made with the absolute perfect conditions to sustain life of all forms. Simply look to the balance of the world and that's proof right there.

    In my religion, I believe that there is a magical unicorn orbiting Jupiter that answers all of our prayers.

    Oh, you don't believe that's true?

    Well the burden of proof is on you my friend. I don't have to prove it exists since I'm not the unicorn atheist.
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    Ah burden of proof. Lovely.
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    If the universe was created by someone (which i dont believe) then why do people die from cancer and other diseases or are born with birth defects, surely if there was a creator then he/she would ensure that imperfections wouldn't exist. Evolution explains the defects in all creatures and the reason that nothing is absolutely perfect in every way. We evolved in such a way that it was inevitable that imperfections were carried on through the evolution of any particular species.

    That's because Satan for the time being is the God of this world. This is so we have free will and is a test of our faith in God. In heavan there is no imperfection this time on earth is a short one.
  • fanglekaifanglekai Regular
    edited September 2010
    That's because Satan for the time being is the God of this world. This is so we have free will and is a test of our faith in God. In heavan there is no imperfection this time on earth is a short one.

    Says the bible. We're back to square one :/
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    We'll since I'm Christian of course I'm going to use Biblical arguments. But ok Ill use general Creation arguments instead. First I assume you believe in Evolution right? Read this http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Mar/25/ten-major-flaws-evolution-revised/
    I need a better explanation than the Big Bang as to why earth was made perfect for life of all kinds when as far as we know know others have been? The burden of proof you speak of has never been met by the Atheists or the Evolutionists? You guys are the ones saying we came from a cingle cell organism somehow I'd say the burden of proof is on that.
  • DaktologistDaktologist Global Moderator
    edited September 2010
    I dont believe there is a god. I've read the bible to some extend, did my share of research and had sessions of personal philosophy and I came to the conclusion that god (at least as the bible and religion describes him) is quiet impossible.

    However I dont believe it was all just a random series of accidents like most "atheists" will say. Science isn't a bunch of random accidents, there is logic and reason behind it. Its not logic we have invented but logic that already existed that we are trying to understand, which is proof in itself that there is indeed an intelligence to the universe. I do not believe there is some man in the sky pulling the strings though, I consider it to be closer to an omnipotent rule book guiding things along, if you can understand my meaning.

    When asked to choose between science and religion I choose science. Because science is at least modest enough to accept we do not know the answers. I find both Atheists and Christians to be arrogant in the assumption that they do have all the answers.

    Agreed, at least when looking at it from a scientific point of view there are clear cut explanations to why the universe was formed. Science gives a logical reason as to why that something happened, for example chemists are able to explain exactly why sodium chloride (table salt) is formed, chlorine and sodium atoms bond due to electron arrangements and what not. in other words it is a clear explanation to why sodium and chlorine react in that way to form that particular compound. Unlike the bible which would say that "god" did it for what ever reason he had which to me isnt a reasonable explanation for anything. sure there is a lot that we still dont know, but so far the evidence that has been found suggests that there isnt a "god" or creator of some description
  • edited September 2010
    We'll since I'm Christian of course I'm going to use Biblical arguments. But ok Ill use general Creation arguments instead. First I assume you believe in Evolution right? Read this http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Mar/25/ten-major-flaws-evolution-revised/
    I need a better explanation than the Big Bang as to why earth was made perfect for life of all kinds when as far as we know know others have been? The burden of proof you speak of has never been met by the Atheists or the Evolutionists? You guys are the ones saying we came from a cingle cell organism somehow I'd say the burden of proof is on that.

    are you saying you do not believe in evolution? Sir, surely you jest.
    Evolution has been proved plenty of times, hell there are probably a few experiments you can do at home yourself that proves evolution.

    As far as the earth being perfect for life. The universe as far as we can tell is infinite, and therefore there's an infinite number of possibilities for just the right conditions to occur that allow life. Guess we got lucky :/
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    are you saying you do not believe in evolution? Sir, surely you jest.
    Evolution has been proved plenty of times, hell there are probably a few experiments you can do at home yourself that proves evolution.

    As far as the earth being perfect for life. The universe as far as we can tell is infinite, and therefore there's an infinite number of possibilities for just the right conditions to occur that allow life. Guess we got lucky :/

    I believe things to evolve. But I do not buy the fact that we came from apes even for a second. I think that is a ridiculous idea and life as we know it certainly didnt come from a single cell organism that somehow evolved into everything there is today.
  • edited September 2010
    I believe things to evolve. But I do not buy the fact that we came from apes even for a second. I think that is a ridiculous idea and life as we know it certainly didnt come from a single cell organism that somehow evolved into everything there is today.

    I dont think we came directly from apes either, although if you believe in evolution do you think its possible we are a different strand of evolution from a common ancestor of the apes? So they arnt really our fathers but closer to our cousins.
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    I dont think we came directly from apes either, although if you believe in evolution do you think its possible we are a different strand of evolution from a common ancestor of the apes? So they arnt really our fathers but closer to our cousins.

    No I believe we were created in God's image. Ill agree that humans can evolve to an extent and adapt as our environment changes but I dont believe in it to the extent that most do.
  • VertannoVertanno Semo-Regulars
    edited January 2011
    All I see everywhere these days are athiests talking about gods.
  • starfox223starfox223 Regular
    edited March 2011
    Very nice
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