I'm going to use this thread mostly as a mirror for any posts I make or posts that I reference from mike's thread in NFHC. This way I have what I've written saved in a place not run by nazi moderators and BLTC gets some new & original content to enjoy. If this fall trend of me actually being productive continues then you can expect many more articles from me...and hopefully some of those stories ive always promised I'd detail
anyway, copy pasta my post which is mostly about piracetam but starts off talking about 5-htp and touches on the subject of ischemia as well. hopefully the formatting & everything works. it's a long, meth fueled post so brace yourself and don't bother tl;dring, just skim & read at yr own leisure.
Feel free to also add yr own contributions on the general subject of living better through chemical means, such as harm reduction, tolerance reduction, cognitive enhancement, memory, nutrition, etc.
Was it 5-htp you are supposed to preload with for a couple days?
Yeah, but I'm not really sure that it does much. I experimented with taking it everyday for a while and at the time I thought it had an effect, but after doing more research I think
I may have been mistaken.
Also, I recall reading the specific statement that 5-htp requires vitamin B1 to undergo the kinda of metabolism required. However I think it might have been shown that even after including B1, 5-htp still wasn't capable of doing shit. Much like Shulgin's failed attempts with melatonin.
Ah, according to
this, it was vitamin B6, not B1.
Q: Does vitamin B6 cause 5-HTP to rapidly convert into serotonin before it even reaches the brain? Does this mean you don't get an increase of brain serotonin?
A: No, actually quite the opposite. In one notable study on rats, vitamin B6 deficiency was deliberately induced. It was discovered that very little serotonin was produced in the rat brain when deficient in B6.4
In other experiments with monkeys and rats, the presence of ample amounts of B6 - even to the point of "moderate excess" - increased production of serotonin (in the brain) from 5-HTP by up to 60%.5,6 Once again, it is clear that 5-HTP raises brain serotonin levels - with or without carbidopa or benserazide, and with or without vitamin B6. But the evidence indicates that it's better to take 5-HTP without carbidopa or benserazide and with vitamin B6.7
I'd also like to say that when studying things like this, ask as many questions and don't assume too much because things work in very weird ways. For instance, did you know that 80% of yr serotonin is in yr fucking
gut? Check this out, yo:
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/36/14/16.fullhttp://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/Osteoporosis/18346
So yeah, remember that while you may be trying to do one thing, you may end up having some completely unexpected result. Therefore I urge you to research as much as humanly possible before deciding to consume such and such with the intentions of nootropy. I don't think any of us are doctors, although a few of us are over-qualified for such a horrendous job, anyway. I know I've schooled a few doctors in my time. :cool:
To contribute to the general thread more (great idea mike, although I think having "important thread" in all caps is arrogant and juvenile - it's not really that important, it's just a good idea), there is a nootropic that when taken with a source of choline (personally I use raw eggs and I'll explain why later) increases your
choline levels by something like 80%...at least according to studies done on rats. This nootropic is the original cognitive enhancer,
Piracetam.
Piracetam - Staple of NootropicsPiracetam has been around for a while and has been safely used on humans for years, has a ridiculously high lethal dosage, and has very few unwanted side effects, generally. This original nootropic was first used in treatment of memory impairment, Alzheimer's, and other cognitive decline in the elderly as most nootropics have been at some time. However there are many kinds of people that use it, and recreational drug users in particular can definitely find a use in it, which is several-fold. This is especially true if one has used drugs recklessly for many years and now suffers some sort of cognitive impairment, general burnout, malaise, or whatever.
First, about choline. It's thought that part of the nootropic action of piracetam is through raising levels of choline:
Profound effects of combining choline and piracetam on memory enhancement and cholinergic function in aged rats
In an attempt to gain some insight into possible approaches to reducing age-related memory disturbances, aged Fischer 344 rats were administered either vehicle, choline, piracetam or a combination of choline or piracetam. Animals in each group were tested behaviorally for retention of a one trial passive avoidance task, and biochemically to determine changes in choline and acetylcholine levels in hippocampus, cortex and striatum. Previous research has shown that rats of this strain suffer severe age-related deficits on this passive avoidance task and that memory disturbances are at least partially responsible. Those subjects given only choline (100 mg/kg) did not differ on the behavioral task from control animals administered vehicle. Rats given piracetam (100 mg/kg) performed slightly better than control rats (p<0.05), but rats given the piracetam/choline combination (100 mg/kg of each) exhibited retention scores several times better than those given piracetam alone. In a second study, it was shown that twice the dose of piracetam (200 mg/kg) or choline (200 mg/kg) alone, still did not enhance retention nearly as well as when piracetam and choline (100 mg/kg of each) were administered together. Further, repeated administration (1 week) of the piracetam/choline combination was superior to acute injections. Regional determinations of choline and acetylcholine revealed interesting differences between treatments and brain area. Although choline administration raised choline content about 50% in striatum and cortex, changes in acetylcholine levels were much more subtle (only 6–10%). No significant changes following choline administration were observed in the hippocampus. However, piracetam alone markedly increased choline content in hippocampus (88%) and tended to decrease acetylcholine levels (19%). No measurable changes in striatum or cortex were observed following piracetam administration. The combination of choline and piracetam did not potentiate the effects seen with either drug alone, and in certain cases the effects were much less pronounced under the drug combination. These data were discussed as they relate to possible effects of choline and piracetam on cholinergic transmission and other neuronal function, and how these effects may reduce specific memory disturbances in aged subjects. The results of these studies demonstrate that the effects of combining choline and piracetam are quite different than those obtained with either drug alone and support the notion that in order to achieve substantial efficacy in aged subjects it may be necessary to reduce multiple, interactive neurochemical dysfunctions in the brain, or affect activity in more than one parameter of a deficient metabolic pathway.
While this study is ultimately not entirely conclusive about the best route of action to take or about the mystery surrounding the differences in the combination vs either one alone, it is most likely best for drug users that fear cognitive impairment to take a source of choline along with piracetam. Choline has an important function in neurotransmission, as it is synthesized into acetylcholine - although apparently piracetam on its own will decrease acetylcholine levels while raising choline. That is according to the study above as well as this one,
Piracetam diminishes hippocampal acetylcholine levels in rats.
Like I said earlier, things are much more confusing and intricate than a simple, "this is good, make brain spew happy juice" and a "this is bad, this make happy juice dry up, brain goes dry." Therefore I encourage you to supplement with taking both choline, piracetam, and the combination thereof until you see what works...and what works under what conditions. Piracetam is a fairly versatile chemical in that it's not entirely clear cut when it is helping and when it doesn't do anything. At no time will taking piracetam really
harm you - except possibly through a combined effort at inducing psychosis when mixed with certain drugs (more on that later). Increasing the levels of choline ingested through diet instead of supplement is to be preferred, although that is at least half opinion.
That isn't all that piracetam has stuck up its sleeve, though. It's also believed that piracetam is able to increase cross-talk between the hemispheres of the brain through some mechanism of action involving the
corpus callosum. It is the half-educated opinion of some that this is what is responsible for piracetam reportedly and in my experience enhancing creativity, libido, imagination, and other cognitive benefits that might be arising from something other than choligenic action.
Comments
Piracetam also reportedly restores membrane fluidity, which might have something to do with the enhancement of cross-talk between the membranes and it's effect on learning in general. In addition to increasing membrane fluidity & all that, it is also a neuroprotectant and can revitalize a brain that might be suffering from methamphetamine induced cerebral ischemia. Generally this is only going to really be a problem when someone suffers a stroke, and at that point you're kinda too fucked to be reading my advice anyway. But meth can still fuck with you, so whatever you can do to offset its cerebral toxicity is great. For an example of the damage meffz can cause (and I am spun right now mind you), check this:
Chronic methamphetamine administration inhibits cerebral ischemia-induced hyperactivity in Mongolian gerbils.
The topic of cerebral ischemia is an interesting one, because it is pretty relevant to users of almost all stimulants. I'm going to go off the piracetam topic for a moment so forgive me while I touch lightly on this topic.
Ischemia occurs because of three reasons generally, vasoconstriction, thrombosis, and embolism. A short summary of each, courtesy of wikipedia:
Back on to the general side-tracked topic of ischemia: ischemia is defined as a lack of blood supply to an organ, as compared to the more general term hypoxia, which is a lack of oxygen. When the adequate amount of blood isn't able to flow to the organs that are needed, because of either vasoconstriction or thrombosis/embolism, then tissues become damaged due to the piling up of metabolic waste, like a multiple car crash or an writing orgy of meth freaks. This basically means that when you ingest stimulants, especially chronically, you are cutting off the maximum amount of blood available to such important things as your brain, lungs, extremities, etc. Because stimulants are vasoconstrictors, sometimes they are used in treating various hypotension disorders, as vasoconstriction naturally occurs in the body so that you avoid orthostatic hypotension, which I get a lot. If you didn't click the link before and don't know what orthostatic hypotension is, then ask yourself if any of this seems familiar:
That shit can be pretty debilitating and it's easy to see why your body would react against being put into such a state of weakness. In an attempt to stop you from blacking out and losing the supply of oxygen to yr brain, your body reverses the low-blood pressure trend and introduces a high-blood pressure alternative. As a fight or flight mechanism of action it is perfect: it will allow young caveman to fly from the hungry beast that creeps up on him while sitting down, instead of just blacking out & giving up & letting the beast have lunch. However, when this consistently happens because of exogenous (a much better term to use than synthetic or artificial, in this kind of talk) stimulation, especially because of drugs, there are many risks one takes:
So what can one do to prevent this from happening? Well first of all the absolute best answer that there is happens to be your own to feet: start walking for several miles (6-12 miles is ideal) a day, everyday if you can, and especially get some walking in if you're high on stimulants. Walking for a long time will improve blood flow, help the brain in its synthesis of dopamine from phenylalanine (I can not find the source for this claim but from my memory, walking & exercise in general was supposedly necessary for the proper synthesis of endogenous amphetamine), and basically help regulate the body closer to homeostasis. Doing this will help you not only avoid brain damage & cognitive impairment, but it should also help you get much higher from the drugs you do. You're much more likely to be able to eat & fall asleep after a meth binge if you managed to sneak in a several hour hike.
While there is much more to talk about, I am high as a kite on meth right now and need to take some of my own advice. I've dehydrated, stoned, and have been sitting around all day so I'm a prime candidate for blacking the fuck out or depriving my brain of proper nutrients. Thusly I'm going to say a few last things about piracetam for now (there will be more to come on all kinds of stuff, though!) and then go take a cold shower for reasons you may be able to deduce from some of my old posts on RiaB (or if not, expect an article that I've been wanting to do for a while), eat several raw eggs, drink a lot of water, smoke a bowl, and then go for a hike.
Piracetam, as I have tried to shown, is safe & beneficial for young, old, and drug users alike, although it helps the most significantly with those that suffer the worst. Therefore if you take piracetam like many transhumanist nootropic enthusiasts do expecting it to take you from average to super smart and don't experience a damn thing then well, don't cry to me. Take much of what is said about intelligence enhancing, memory enhancing, etc, with a hefty dosage of salt (but not too much sodium - ! ) because everyone will respond differently. Personally I have gained enormous benefits from it, and I've been using it for about three years.
It's extremely cheap, it's available on drugstore.com in a 500 gram case for $30. A common dosage is anywhere from 800 mg to 8 grams at once or over the day, some people recommend using an introductory attack dose while others only respond well to lower dosages. Once again, experiment to find that sweet spot.
A NOTE ON PIRACETAM INTERACTIONS:
Piracetam, when mixed with various drugs, produces interesting effects. It most certainly increases the intensity of psychedelics and can give you very out-there trips, and although everyone responds differently most people agree that it potentiates psychedelics. There are many drugs that it interacts with, so here is a short list I've compiled myself, based on what I know personally. Don't take what I say as the word of god...
Piracetam potentiates these recreational drugs:
MDxx (although I have not tested every various related chemical, piracetam greatly increases ecstasy's euphoria, notably increases hallucinations (CEV & OEV), as well as having a positive effect on the sexual side of the whole experience - and as a male I personally find it easier to get in touch with my feminine & weirdly other side. expect increased insomnia, though)
LSD/LSA (LSD is greatly potentiated by piracetam, except the piracetam to emphasize the clean & mental high that LSD can bring, especially if ergoloid is also brought into the mix; LSA is also potentiated but I've noticed that it is not quite as noticeable as with LSD, your hallucinations will definitely be more vivid & distinct though)
Mushrooms (emphasizes, like MDxx, the feminine aspect & allows great connection, when piracetam is mixed with mushrooms it feels like your brain is introducing all kinds of new connections while you connect with the universe, OEVs will most likely be energy-based and not overwhelming but full of inner meaning, while CEVs should transport you to another universe)
2c-x (I've only mixed piracetam with 2c-b and it makes it speedier, more euphoric, as well enhancing visuals, although in general piracetam doesn't seem to increase other bodily sense and acts primarily in its memory enhancing effect through some visual component; in addition I find trips are much easier to recall & integrate to life if piracetam is used)
Amphetamine (apparently this combination might induce cytotoxicity although I have not researched it conclusively. there are several aspects of this I want to look into but for the most part piracetam potentiates all stimulants)
Cocaine (I'm not much of a coke head but I think piracetam affects it in a similar manner to speed)
Methylphenidate (your ritalin will probably be a bit stronger but piracetam isn't going to turn your shitty ritalin experience into anything amazing)
Ketamine (both times I tried ketamine I'm fairly sure I was on piracetam, and I got very high off of a relatively small amount both times so my gut guess is that it does indeed help but piracetam & how it relates to glutamate and NMDA antagonists should be looked into, too)
Caffeine (a good coffee buzz when combined with piracetam results in a low to mid grade amphetamine buzz, with plenty off mania & irritation)
Nicotine (because of its effects on choline, I think that being on piracetam greatly potentiates nicotines effect and you may find yourself getting nicotine rushes even if you chain smoke; apparently it is also helpful in stopping smoking and is probably why I can smoke as much as I want socially
and rarely crave it in private)
Alcohol (except to get really sedated, possibly more irritable as well as more sexual although with alcohol your judgement is so clouded it can be hard to tell, although piracetam definitely has a general enhancement effect on alcohol. there was something specific about this mix I was going to touch on but I forgot)
Nutmeg (this combination is pretty fucking sweet, especially in a cocktail involving any of the above. part of nutmeg's mechanism of action is anticholinergic iirc while also having effects similar to more classic psychedelics. it is my opinion that piracetam makes nutmeg more stimulating and can offset some of the heavy sedation that comes with it, while enhancing visuals, thought process, and especially libido. nutmeg itself is a fairly decent nootropic, and the combination feels like a fairly calm MDMA roll but with a mindset much more similar to LSD...music can also be greatly enhanced, which happens on piracetam occasionally, regardless of it being combined)
Piracetam offsets the effects of:
Scopolamine/datura (I made several posts about this before, at a later date I copy pasta some info here, but basically piracetam greatly reduces the amnesia induced by datura and can make datura actually worth trying in low dosages, responsibly)
Memory loss, brain aging, and cognitive impairment (its main use)
Piracetam combined with other nootropics:
Hydergeine- another nootopic which deserves a write up of its own, it was invented by Hofmann
himself and combined with piracetam it has a synergistic effect that has been reported by many. I don't think there has been much research into why this happens but the synergy is fucking amazing and can be a very powerful, double-edged sword. On the one hand this combo will definitely help you with learning & memory, as well as increase motivation, energy, creativity, and in general revitalizes your brain and overall well being like no other. As a very interesting side note, lucid dreaming is very greatly enhanced by this combination as are all psychic & paranormal powers. Whenever I get the chance to I order hydergeine, although its price makes it fairly prohibitive compared to inexpensive piracetam. Using piracetam means you can use much less hydergeine and still get double the effects you'd get using either on their own. "Double" is a general term here and not an exact medical term, lol. When these two are mixed with psychedelics all bets are off because you will trip way harder then you've ever tripped. I think that at some point every acid head has to try Hofmann's Special: ergoloid and LSD, especially in re: piracetam combination. I've tried the three of them together twice before, and each time were universe-shatteringly epic acid trips. The first time was the most amazing and was a very positive experience that has influenced me forever. The other trip also involved some salvia which made an already very intense experience into a mockery of everything we know as reality as every causal law was bent, broken, or burnt up in the hells of the abyss where I met Satan and learned my way through the very bottom of the Kabbalah's tree of Life.
Bromocriptine - piracetam also works well with this, although not nearly to the degree that hydergeine and piracetam do. all three of them together is a sure fire recipe for inducing your own style of manic genius, if the conditions are ripe (i.e.; you have that sort of passion and are capable of learning). the only downside to bromocriptine really is that it always clogs my sinuses.
provigil - this combination is very amphetamine like, although with caffeine like jitters. if you stay up for a while and experience sleep deprivation hallucinations from provigil (especially if you abuse it), the piracetam can cause some pretty intense CEV/OEV hallucinations that are very different from classic hallucinations.
DLPA - enhances the amphetamine feel to DLPA and it can make one feel very "on it", although this combination has a very few times also induced psychedelia which was slightly distracting and seemed to be non-local information that was analogous to my inner state. for instance when I first tried mixing DLPA with a dosage of piracetam (and I think caffeine as well), I was sitting at the computer reading about it when I look up at an unnaturally chaotic red sky, with a 3 dimensional grid like matrix which I have also seen on LSD & mushrooms, although it was of a slightly different nature. this combination can cause some definite anxiety, mania, and the urge to walk around thinking about things.
Alright, I've been working on this post for like two hours straight, right after a meff session so I'm going to stop now and take care of mein needs. Excuse all spelling/grammar mistakes, this is a work in progress. If I got something wrong or if you have something to add please let me know, and don't take everything I say as gospel because not only am I merely a passionate amateur without a full college education on the subject and also am generally very high & prone to making stupid mistakes. All it takes is confusing agonists with antagonists to cause a deep fundamental flaw in whatever theory you might have, resulting in mass confusion and looking like a noob. So research everything for yourself and come to yr own conclusions.
This thread will keep my occupied for the remainder the the night... *Packs a bowl*
Wow rizzo. Good read, long read but good read. How much meth did that take? LOL
Not to nit pick shit but I'm kinda OCD. Anyway about that metabolism statement. Just to clear it up it wouldn't be a type of metabolism, there is only one type of metabolism. I think the phrase you were looking for is metabolic rate.
When you state this do you mean in the body?
And you say a good source us raw eggs? You said you would explain why, ignore this if you did go on to explain why. But if you didn't why raw eggs and not a pure supplment?
Second Edit: Damn man that is a great read. I keep re-reading it and see something new each time. Thanks for taking the time to put that together bro. Good good info.
thank you!
Come on rizzo where are my answers damnit! :rolleyes: