Correspondence with Jim.
poast-bortem!
Idiot
I've been keeping in contact with JFLC and many others ever since we were all banned from Zoklet. He sent me this message the other day that I thought everyone might find interesting:
He really has a point here, and do so I.
People don't come here JUST to educate themselves, they come here to have a good time. I know when I come here I do so because I hope to read something that will make me laugh.
Now, I know we already have mods, and obviously we will continue to get more, but please, anyone who becomes a mod should be a poster above all else. If people start flexing their power around here everything will fall apart just like on Zoklet. The reason zoklet didn't work is because there was WAY to much debate around what is acceptable material....
I don't know about you but I can recognize spamming when I see it, and that's really the only thing that should be a problem. Cleaning up spam, personal info, child porn, and bots are the ONLY duties a moderator should be concerned with. The content posted by users, especially known totseans, should be respected at all costs. Nothing should be deleted, edited, locked here. If threads have served their purpose, they will die on their own, we don't need anyone to kill them for us. If posters need a spanking, the community will do it for them. Just open the flood gates and try your best to resist the urge to stick your ideals where they don't belong. Thank you.
Jim fuck latinos Carrey wrote:You said something on www.totse.info a few days ago which I agreed with entirely. You said something along the lines of:
"We don't need excessive moderation, we need a place for our kind of people where there is a balance between fun and information."
You summed it up perfectly. The more moderated and "informative" a community becomes, the further it declines in quality. Most people visit internet message boards primarily to entertain the senses, they do not go there to learn technical subjects.
This is why people like Crazzyass, Toothlessjoe, JustAnotherAsshole, Yggdrasil, Greyfox, Rust, ilovechronic, Zok, -SpectraL, and so many others are either despised or shrouded in obscurity.
Unfortunately, everywhere you go these days (offline or online) people are discouraged from being "immature", "childish" or "wild". People are obsessed with being "adults". These people have no appreciation for fun and they absolutely must be terminated.
You should try as hard as possible to make sure that there is as little moderation as possible on totse.info. Optimally there would be no moderators, but I don't know if you or anyone else could convince them to do this.
If that website gets moderators, any "future" it has will be toast. It will die prematurely. It's like AIDS, once you get it you cannot get rid of it. Things will only get progressively worse until you eventually succumb to the disease and die. It might take decades, but it will happen.
He really has a point here, and do so I.
People don't come here JUST to educate themselves, they come here to have a good time. I know when I come here I do so because I hope to read something that will make me laugh.
Now, I know we already have mods, and obviously we will continue to get more, but please, anyone who becomes a mod should be a poster above all else. If people start flexing their power around here everything will fall apart just like on Zoklet. The reason zoklet didn't work is because there was WAY to much debate around what is acceptable material....
I don't know about you but I can recognize spamming when I see it, and that's really the only thing that should be a problem. Cleaning up spam, personal info, child porn, and bots are the ONLY duties a moderator should be concerned with. The content posted by users, especially known totseans, should be respected at all costs. Nothing should be deleted, edited, locked here. If threads have served their purpose, they will die on their own, we don't need anyone to kill them for us. If posters need a spanking, the community will do it for them. Just open the flood gates and try your best to resist the urge to stick your ideals where they don't belong. Thank you.
Comments
qft.
Somehow this problem always reinvents itself when ONE person starts to complain that their thread got spammed or somebody insulted them. It's seriously almost always one butt hurt moralfag who complains and complains about off-topic posting or trolling until it becomes an issue, then we start the whole fucking debate over again, only to agree on nothing and end up like Zoklet.
We should solve this problem by telling butt hurt moralfags to get over it. Plain and simple. If you can't take the heat then gtfo of the kitchen. We absolutely MUST learn to have an acceptable balance of information and lulz, all while we encourage people to break the spell and try new things. Totse was great because there was always something funny or disturbing to read, or some funny new butt hurt drama, and on top of that you almost always learned something new. Censoring controversial material will only make us stagnate.
The main problem with zoklet was that there was a fuckload of debate, but very little information. Having a pissing contest over who is right or wrong is frankly a boring and totally pointless persuit; it should be about saying your piece, letting others say what they want to say and presenting the information without getting bogged down in petty ego games. Threads filled with beurocratic semantics do not inform anyone.
I agree with this. Zoklet was filled with meta wannabes if you ask me. The mods were the problem there, as good mods weren't picked for the job.
I think it is not strictly hypocritical when someone says one thing and someone says something else.
Also, people are just getting passionate and just talking about ideals (we shouldnt have mods because we ought not to need mods) rather than practical considerations.
So of course mods are necessary, but I am in accord with the assessment that less is more as far as mod interference goes. Jeff Hunter was an excellent example of a good leader and admin: when something needed to get done he got it done, including banning people. He was decisive. Otherwise? He gave people and mods free reign to the best of his capacity to uphold liberty.
Thats why totse was around for so long.
I guess I can agree with this. You're saying that rather than having several power hungry bad mods, we just have a handful of good mods, right?
Hm...I'd prefer many mods with limited power under the observance of an admin whose main goal was to uphold liberty and keep the site running. More mods and specialists means less concentrated power, therefore less of a chance for e-drama or power struggles to ensue. I dunno. What do you think?
I think you misunderstood. Obviously we are going to have/need mods, but we should have mods who ARE NOT going to power trip OR try to censor people's opinions. I want mods here, but only mods who will do their job without a sense of superiority. We should have mods who care about the community as a whole rather than their own personal agenda.
I think the reason all those forum politic debates turned into pissing contests was because nobody was willing to back down. Saying your peace and leaving it at that all sounds good in theory but when you don't get your way over and over again, and you see something you love being shit on, it turns into something more than just a debate about a website. It turns into the future of something you love, and I think that's why so many people fought so tirelessly over on Zoklet.
I can easily imagine that happening again over here, but let us AT LEAST embrace freedom of speech now, no matter what, so our endless pissing contests won't have to be about who deserves to be banned, or what content is acceptable. People have proven that they care about totse, so let them put their efforts towards helping it, instead of debating amongst each other about petty bullshit that, no matter what the outcome, only serves to hold us back from our true potential.
I think that most of these problems will be solved by the more definite mission statement totse has. Unlike Zoklet this place will hopefully avoid taking the form of a pseudo social networking site... and keeping "thanks" out of the equation should keep the atmosphere more relaxed . Debate is a good thing, just as long as people can keep themselves from getting their panties in a twist about it.
For sure. My only point here is none of the known members from totse or zoklet should banned, and content shouldn't be edited, deleted, locked, or even moved really. Moving is appropriate when the thread OBVIOUSLY is in the wrong section, but it usually that just sets a prefix for mods to move anything they don't like anywhere where it will be less visible to the majority. Examples are when mods on Zoklet move threads that criticize them from PEOO to IGIAIM because less people read IGIAIM thus less attention is drawn to their fuckups.
I just think we should respect people and their content above everything else. Above features, above rules, above mods, above fucking everything. Most people were encouraged to come here as opposed to zoklet because of this very issue. It is important that we honestly and respectfully maintain the integrity of how we treat people here, otherwise we're no better than &Z.
I really hope JFLC comes here :cool:
Oh man if I was a moderator. ...
Goto one of the chans if you don't want moderation.
Thank you.
Helladamnleet: interesting opinions, could they have anything to do with that "willing to mod" comment in your signature?
Hey, thanks to everyone for all your kind comments.
P.S... I'm not a racist, Vizier. My existence on Zoklet had no purpose other than to pull people's strings. It was 2009, a perfect time for race baiting. Now in the year 2010 I am shocked to see that racial identity politics have become as popular in the media as they were on Zoklet back in 2009. People just can't get over it.
Hahaha, what the fuck are you talking about? I post at TRP with him and he's contributed a ton of news articles, quality threads, and opinions on all kinds of subjects from religion, law enforcement, race, domestic and world issues. He's not only a legendary troll, but he's a great poster in general. If your opinion of him is stemming from you disagreeing with some of his principles, then I understand, but otherwise you're probably basing your opinion of him on what you've seen him post on Zoklet. That place was a shit hole and only good for trolling anyways so what else do you expect?
Nobody said that there shouldn't be any mods. I really don't know where you're getting this from. All we said is we need hands-off mods who don't fuck with people's content. Do you like your posts being deleted? ...I didn't think so.
"You should try as hard as possible to make sure that there is as little moderation as possible on totse.info. Optimally there would be no moderators, but I don't know if you or anyone else could convince them to do this. "
I think you can see why they're getting a bit confused.
I feel ya though, in a perfect world, that'd be my favorite site too. However a site with no mods quickly turns to shit in this world. Which both of you seem to acknowledge, so that was probably just bad wording on JFLC's part.
On a side note: A site with no moderation could feasibly work I guess, you'd just need to make sure users couldn't post/host images there. Child porn is about the only thing that'll fuck you over nowadays. It could be pretty cool, but it would truly devolve into the ass end of the internet in no time.
And really, the chans have the 'no moderation' thing covered pretty well even if there is SOME moderation.
I know. I just loved it how it got a lot of people so pissed off back in the early days of Zoklet. Good to see you back man.
HTS-noob: You are right, that was "bad wording" on my part. Obviously child pornography and personal information (physical addresses, pictures, etc) should be kept off of the forum for the sake of legality and for the security of the members here. No one likes a domineering/conniving moderation team and it is totally unnecessary for a website like this.
Hey thinks for that, I am glad to see you here. I hope no one took anything I had to say on Zoklet to heart (in an "offended" way). Except Ilovechronic. I made a lot of inflammatory posts, sent a lot of weird PMs and generally did anything I could to shock people for no reason other than shocking them. Ilovechronic deserved every bit of it though.
meh nvm.
Is it me or did he just admit to being retarded?
no.
You know greyfox is gone so you can go live it up on zoklet now. It will be your little playground again.
EDIT: Also, Jims newly abbreviated name just reminded me of something. Whatever happened to FragginNoobsInColumbine?
Hey thanks man you're pretty smart too.
i don't see why you have a problem against me. I didn't ban you dude. When you act like a child all the time, noone ever will take you serious.
Why don't you just be like IWD and go from troll to good poster? you could actually post some informative stuff and save you fucking around for the proper forums and noone would mind if you were here.
I actually enjoyed some of my disscussions with you. You bring an intresting perspective whether its trolling or not.
Anyway, I am done with this.
FNIC
JFLC
COINCIDENCE?
I
Hey man I actually don't have any problems with you the real problem is that you are always changing your opinion and your attitude like the wind. One moment you are really tolerant and calm, the next you are typing in all-caps and calling people names. Also you have this tendency to be sort of hateful. But overall I'm not really mad at you nor do I have any real problems with you.
LOL
That is (more or less) all you did at zoklet, though. I'm not being a frustrated, hostile prick, I'm just sharing an observation I made. If you don't do that stuff (The constant, unending trolling) here all the time, I don't see why anyone wouldn't be nice to you.
Im not denying that lol. I am denying I am retarded. I had a friend that had to be in a class with the retards and he GOT SO much shit for it from us. ( I feel bad about that)
i do push for no trolling and stuff. Zos has made the point that it does help for discussion sometimes. But I don't like when people are trolling misinfo and it could do harm and shit. I get mad at people like marijuana smoker on zoklet lol.. He can be really dumb.
Im all about learning, maybe thats why you think I am we todd ed.
JFLC you wouldn't have lasted long if meta was mod. You should be thankful, I wasn't kidding when I said that.
I highly doubt that JFLC is Fraggin. I wasn't kidding when I say JFLC is smarter. But what JFLC said is exactly why fraggin got all butthurt about me. Because he posted some real dumbposts and i would call him out on it. Like "how to steel handgun ammo from walmart " and ten at the same time he would have a thread about "a stolen handgun" or something. He was too stupid to figure how to get handgun ammo when he was under 21(which its easy as fuck)
if IWD can make a transformation you can haha.
Come on, now.
And poking fun at my mental state wasn't nice. It's not as if I'm developmentally challenged (DERP) or some shit, I just have issues. Especially recently. I'm not sure if my mind is finally starting to deteriorate or what.
dude, we are all here for you.
its ok.
At least I'm not funny looking.
I know from personal experience that he can be a valuable contributor and generally a challenging person, which is a GOOD THING. Ilovecronic says JFLC is a "fucked up sick twisted motherfucker" and I say we need MORE people like that here. But honestly, whatever your personal opinion of him and whatever his personal opinion of you, I hope we can all put our grudges aside to help build this community into something we can all call home.
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING :eek:
He made me lol on many occasions when I lurked, he didn't post much after the tsnoobie. I assume he made a different account.
Also in the vid he racked the slide on one of his stolen guns but it didn't have ammo.(he didn't figure out how to get the ammo):D:facepalm:
JFLC I am going to assume all your steroid posts on zoklet were to pull people's strings as well. No way you stay on test for 6 months and never run a PCT.