The SnB and quantity of Li used

edited December 2018 in Man Cave
The reason I am making a new post for this is it doesn't seem to be a discussion and there seems to be plenty of Bees on here now who have studied this reaction. Let me first say that everything written here is based on pure hypothesis and information obtained from liersture found on the subject.
So with that out of the way let me explain what my research has come up with over years of study and writting. The quantity listed seems to be in a great excess. Now I understand that the reason the amount is called for is do to a few variables some of which can not be determined to an exact due to the crude materials and equipment being worked with but some can be controlled with alittle bit of thought and time taken. The AN can first be dried under heat lamp or in an oven on a LOW temp. The non polar can also be dried by means of MGSO4 baked in an oven and placed in the same jar containing said non polar. So if both of those are treated as listed above a good portion of the moisture had been eliminated before the reaction even takes place. Now all we are left with is the figure for how much H2O is produced during the reaction between AN and the NaOH. I have done a ton of study on this and have written about this story hundreds of times I have done studies using a variety of weights of Li and have found that the amount called for if the above precautions are taken produces a relatively high quantity of CMP. When running a reaction of 2.4g to 2.88g the amount of Li the seems to work the best and give a greater ratio of quality product to cmp is one full strip of Li per every 2.5 g of feedstock used. Noe there are a few other things to keep mind also when using the quantity I have listed. One is to make sure you allow your Li to become half to 3/4 bronze before adding the GUPS. Well I wanted to open this up for discussion from some of the other knowledgeable 🐝 on here because the quest for making a high quality product is on and the Li plays a huge factor on that. So please post any info gathered from studies done.


  • DfgDfg Admin
    Moving to Man Cave, it's a manly thing you just posted.
  • Come on people can we get some input, findings, anything?
  • I have been doing my research as well & I couldn’t find any refarding qty of Li/AN.. guess ill just experiment this new batch i have of pse (1.8g) using exactly half strip or less if needed. will update on my findings
  • Hey thanks for at least replying to the post. Listen PM me I got some good info finally and I saw you had questions. I will post my Life findings shortly
  • Ok, so here's an answer to your water question. Since water is produced, if the measurements to creat ammonia are stoichiometric then you have produced water. This can be counter acted by additional lye. Lye absorbs water and thus the more lye you add the slower the reaction. If the ratio is exact you will end up w a gummy substance. Add lye and bam, salts again dry as bone.
  • Oh yeah, the lithium amount is correct as u said it. One strip is best for that amount. However using two strips does NOT ,mean u used both strips. It just ensures u get enough bronze before integrity of the bottle is lost. U get bronze faster with two. When one has dissolved you can shake but if u prefer to add only one then that's fine.
  • Thanks for the response. I didn't think anyone
    Could see it or it got moved to the wrong spot. So lye will remove the water produced by the Li NaOH reaction? Then why can the ratio of Li to PSE not be narrowed down more. My research had lead to reading about many many many reactions and with a minor tweak here or there they wpuld get close but was never able to completely zero in and I figured that was attributed to many different factors. I am self taught and never had any older Bee to show my the ropes so I lesrned what I could on the web then went out and bought an organic Chem 1 Book then life got in the way and havnt even started reading chem 2 yet. I am sure I read somewhere about the lye and water but if I am not applying it all the time things get forgotten. Then I go and get off topic so back to the water. With lye removing the water would there be a way to figure out exactly how much is being produced then takes its molecular weight and that of NaOH and figure out extact amount of lye to have a dry reaction where you can actually use the pinky nail size piece like you would in a true Birch?
  • I always based the ammonia on the ammonium salts, lye being secondary. A tweaker of phenomenal proportions pointed out to me that "two to one" lye to AN is by weight and by ammonia content of the ammonium salt, not the total weight of the salt itself. It only took a small amount of experimentation to confirm this as fact. So since nh4no3 contains 34% nh3 then 68% by weight lye will be stoichiometric. I found that if you nail this proportion you deal with real fast reaction rate, heat, and a nearly solid mass. Two problems with the proper stoichiometry: not enough base to base out the pse and high reaction temperature. The higher temperature means more pressure and far higher than 100 psi is needed at 120 degrees f (near 50 c). More lye gives a drier environment, slower ammonia production and lower temperature. Make sure lye being added doesn't touch the threads of the bottle as lye is used to break down the PET used to make the bottles during recycling. 40 cc of AN, 50-60 cc lye is perfect. Dropping water in to start the reaction can be completely dehydrated with lye, so I would aim for 60cc lye to 40cc AN. 40 is all that is necessary for ammonia production and burping is unnecessary. I stress 40cc AN bc it's about perfect. I've performed 100s of reactions, sometimes up to three at the same time, and 40cc seems to be about perfect. 34% of 40 is just over 13 cc nh3 anhydrous, this proves effective for dissolving all lithium and converting all pse or e. Btw using e supposedly is better for conversion to meth but I can't confirm this. That was the words of uncle fester.
  • Btw it's not possible to get the ratio to that of a birch/benkeser. Not without a real reaction vessel, i.e. Low pressure autoclave. They consider less than 100 atmospheres low pressure work! But then that makes sense considering 100000 atmospheres (multiply by 14 to get psi as one atmospher is 14psi)
  • edited July 2018
    One more thing: you have a book or two on chemistry you ought to crack it open every once in a while. In there is a whole set of keys to a whole set of drugs! There are some that are not even tapped into yet. Wait till the day comes when I introduce methamphetacubanamine. I can't even imagine what cubane could really add to the whole scene. Literally the difference between two dimensions and three!
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