Potassium Perchlorate and Dark aluminum — Totseans

Potassium Perchlorate and Dark aluminum

KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
edited January 2011 in Man Cave
For M80's. How can i get the stuff? It seems the feds Really don't want you to. They've attacked united nuclear too.

Comments

  • 1357913579 Death Cog Machine
    edited July 2010
    They've gotten to United Nuclear? :(

    I'll take a look at some sources a friend of mine found. To be honest, because obtaining flash grade aluminum was so difficult, I've never made flashpowder. Went straight to AP.
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited July 2010
    Ebay will cover you for the aluminum powder, just be careful what you buy. If the price is too good to be true, it likely is.
    I had two bad experiences before getting it right.

    This was good:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230495012939&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

    This is falsely advertised as "flake," whereas it's really atomized (will not work properly):
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190349248624&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

    I've bought both of those, and am speaking from experience.

    To get potasium perchlorate, I suggest you meet the requirements of reputable companies like skylighter and united nuclear. A dedicated pyro should easily be able to, though there might be an age issue.
    A lot of people underestimate the dangers of flash powder, and I believe people can learn a lot from practicing with BP.
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited July 2010
    I cant build M80's with AP. At least not safe ones anyway.

    Also, i wonder if powdered magnesium could be substitute aluminum.
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited July 2010
    Yes, it could be a substitute, but magnesium will increase the sensitivity.
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited July 2010
    No ideas?
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited July 2010
    I wasn't saying I think it could. It most definitely will work if powdered properly.
    It'll increase the power and sensitivity.
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited July 2010
    No,I meant where to get the stuff.
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited July 2010
    CoghlansFireStarter.jpg

    Get one from a sporting goods store. Use a file to grind it down.

    Alternatively, this website is selling pre-powdered magnesium, but it's NOT cheap.
    http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8807659&pfx=
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited July 2010
    I know how to get magnesium, I meant the Perchlorate.
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited July 2010
    Quoted from earlier:
    To get potasium perchlorate, I suggest you meet the requirements of reputable companies like skylighter and united nuclear. A dedicated pyro should easily be able to, though there might be an age issue.
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited July 2010
    They require i get an explosives manufacturing license. I doubt i can get one of those.
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited July 2010
    They require i get an explosives manufacturing license. I doubt i can get one of those.

    Only if you want to order more than a pound per year, and they will not sell to you if they think your intentions are to build illegal devices.

    I use them, they're a good site. You'll need to send them a scan of your ID to order it, though.
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited July 2010
    Only if you want to order more than a pound per year, and they will not sell to you if they think your intentions are to build illegal devices

    Which means my firs few orders can't contain m80 parts. I don't have money to waste.
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited July 2010
    Well good luck with your plans. Be safe, and might I direct you here: http://www.cannonfuse.com/store/pc/home.asp


    Buy more fuse than you think you will need. It is not something you'll want to skimp on.
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited July 2010
    plus fucking one
  • stormyweathersstormyweathers Acolyte
    edited August 2010
    american pyro supply and north star pyro are the same company, but sometimes prices and availability differ.
    but they both offer a wide range of good stuff, no questions asked
    they do restrict shipping certain combinations though (chlorates and aluminum), but if you place two separate orders your fine.
  • homeslice4700homeslice4700 Regular
    edited January 2011
    aluminum powder sucks, who the F taught you how to make M-80s?... and when I bought some; just for reference of course, I just typed aluminum powder into google and bam!
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited January 2011
    aluminum powder sucks, who the F taught you how to make M-80s?... and when I bought some; just for reference of course, I just typed aluminum powder into google and bam!

    Orly? Tell me, what should I use instead?
  • homeslice4700homeslice4700 Regular
    edited January 2011
    Orly? Tell me, what should I use instead?

    For educational purposes only I would use 50% potassium chlorate and 50% sugar(good old home fashioned out of the cupboard)

    mix it all together in a plastic bowl with a wooden spoon then pour and pack(gently)
  • KatzenklavierKatzenklavier Regular
    edited January 2011
    Potassium chlorate flash powder? No thanks.
  • edited January 2011
    aluminum powder sucks, who the F taught you how to make M-80s?... and when I bought some; just for reference of course, I just typed aluminum powder into google and bam!

    You're an idiot. Aluminum powder is the industry standard because it's reliable, a great fuel, and it's not overly sensitive. It's second only to Magnesium, but Mg has a lot of sensitivity issues that make it too dangerous to be practical.
    and when I bought some; just for reference of course, I just typed aluminum powder into google and bam!

    While this is a fairly reasonable method of finding a supplier, it's safer and generally cheaper to order from an actual pyrotechnics supplier. It also ensures quality materials.

    For educational purposes only I would use 50% potassium chlorate and 50% sugar(good old home fashioned out of the cupboard)

    mix it all together in a plastic bowl with a wooden spoon then pour and pack(gently)

    KClO3 and sugar will make a smoke bomb, not flash powder. KClO3 is also very unstable and should only be handled by people who know what they're doing (which, clearly, is not you) due to its tendency to spontaneously ignite when in the presence of sulfur or phosphorous, and sometimes just because you looked at it funny.

    As well, never mix flash in a plastic bowl, and never use a spoon to mix it. You will lose your hand. Only use the diaper method when mixing flash.


    Consider this a general warning. You need to do a lot more research, otherwise you'll end up injuring yourself, someone else, or both. You should also give this thread a look.
  • homeslice4700homeslice4700 Regular
    edited January 2011
    Vineman wrote: »
    You're an idiot. Aluminum powder is the industry standard because it's reliable, a great fuel, and it's not overly sensitive. It's second only to Magnesium, but Mg has a lot of sensitivity issues that make it too dangerous to be practical.



    While this is a fairly reasonable method of finding a supplier, it's safer and generally cheaper to order from an actual pyrotechnics supplier. It also ensures quality materials.




    KClO3 and sugar will make a smoke bomb, not flash powder. KClO3 is also very unstable and should only be handled by people who know what they're doing (which, clearly, is not you) due to its tendency to spontaneously ignite when in the presence of sulfur or phosphorous, and sometimes just because you looked at it funny.

    As well, never mix flash in a plastic bowl, and never use a spoon to mix it. You will lose your hand. Only use the diaper method when mixing flash.


    :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:Consider this a general warning. You need to do a lot more research, otherwise you'll end up injuring yourself, someone else, or both. You should also give this thread a look.


    I've used aluminum powder and all it did was lower the explosive potentcy and if your think potassium chlorate and sugar will make a smoke bomb then you are fucking retarded and have aboslutely no IDEA what you're talkign about and I've mixed them both in a plastic bowl with a wooden spoon slowly and I still have my hand so blow me
  • edited January 2011
    I've used aluminum powder and all it did was lower the explosive potentcy and if your think potassium chlorate and sugar will make a smoke bomb then you are fucking retarded and have aboslutely no IDEA what you're talkign about and I've mixed them both in a plastic bowl with a wooden spoon slowly and I still have my hand so blow me

    :rolleyes:

    I would encourage you to do more research, as well as not react so defensively to someone giving you advice for your own benefit. But hey, it's your life.
    :thumbsup: You do it how you want. :thumbsup:

    However, if you continue to come into this subforum and spread incorrect and/or dangerous information you will find yourself reprimanded. If you're not willing to take the hobby seriously then I'm not willing to put up with you.
  • homeslice4700homeslice4700 Regular
    edited January 2011
    Vineman wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    I would encourage you to do more research, as well as not react so defensively to someone giving you advice for your own benefit. But hey, it's your life.
    :thumbsup: You do it how you want. :thumbsup:

    However, if you continue to come into this subforum and spread incorrect and/or dangerous information you will find yourself reprimanded. If you're not willing to take the hobby seriously then I'm not willing to put up with you.

    Go ahead abuse your power I'm just providing correct information that I've experienced and done by myself first hand
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited January 2011
    I reckon we might need one of those ever-popular "trashcan threads."
  • homeslice4700homeslice4700 Regular
    edited January 2011
    For M80's. How can i get the stuff? It seems the feds Really don't want you to. They've attacked united nuclear too.

    p.s. the feds will want you if you do stupid shit with them
  • thewandererthewanderer Regular
    edited January 2011
    Go ahead abuse your power I'm just providing correct information that I've experienced and done by myself first hand

    Just because you have handled potassium chlorate without incidence doesn't make it safe and if aluminum is weakening your mixture then you're probably mixing it with the wrong ratios.
    You should do some more reading on the subject before you jump in here trying to sound like an expert.
  • homeslice4700homeslice4700 Regular
    edited January 2011
    Just because you have handled potassium chlorate without incidence doesn't make it safe and if aluminum is weakening your mixture then you're probably mixing it with the wrong ratios.
    You should do some more reading on the subject before you jump in here trying to sound like an expert.

    I never said it was safe! It's extremely dangerous I was just stating how I did it multiple times safely and the products I used and aluminum powder will just make it flash not more explosive
  • strapped felonstrapped felon Acolyte
    edited January 2011
    I never said it was safe! It's extremely dangerous I was just stating how I did it multiple times safely and the products I used and aluminum powder will just make it flash not more explosive

    I've also mixed Chlorate and AL together safely and without incident. 200g to be exact, in a plastic bag. I guess I have balls... well one at least.

    My mixture of 70g potassium chlorate and 30 grams of german blackhead aluminum from northstar pyro creates a very, very nice mixture and is extremely powerful with 10 grams to a salute. Not to mention I run my chlorate through a ball mill before mixing because sometimes it arrives clumpy.
  • My Mom Is DeadMy Mom Is Dead Regular
    edited January 2011
    I've also mixed Chlorate and AL together safely and without incident. 200g to be exact, in a plastic bag. I guess I have balls... well one at least.

    I've mixed magnesium, sulfur and potassium permanganate together without incident.
    Just because things went well, doesn't mean it wasn't a dumbass idea.
  • strapped felonstrapped felon Acolyte
    edited January 2011
    Is potassium chlorate still unstable without the presence of sulfer?
  • LordWormLordWorm Regular
    edited January 2011
    Is potassium chlorate still unstable without the presence of sulfer?

    Unstable, no. Sensitive to initiation? Well, that depends.

    Chlorate/Sulfur mixtures are one of the few that can actually be called unstable, and not simply unusually sensitive. Oxidation of sulfur in air produces trace amounts of polythionic acids, which decompose to yield sulfuric acid and sulfur dioxide. Sulfur dioxide reacts with the chlorate anion to produce chlorine dioxide gas, which spontaneously oxidizes sulfur at room temperature. The reaction is exothermic and auto-catalytic, as it generates additional SO2, in turn driving the production of ClO2 from KClO3. If this reaction is allowed to proceed for an extended period of time, it can cause the composition to auto ignite.

    Mixtures of potassium chlorate and metal powders are more sensitive than flash compositions made with KClO4, but they are not unstable. You need to subject them to an external energy source in order for ignition to occur.
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