Eugenics

DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
edited October 2010 in Spurious Generalities
How do you all feel about Eugenics. Im Christian so I normally believe in preserving most life but in the case of people who will be born as mutants or profoundly retarded I believe they should be eliminated before birth. There life unworthy of life in a sense. They offer no use to society and not only that there lives will never be good. I saw this thing on these parents whose kid had some profound facial deformity and I had to ask why keep it alive. At the very least they should be sterilized to prevent them from reproducing when there likely to pass on the defective gene. I honestly thought Hitler did the right thing with the whole T4 program. Im not talking about killing cripples but people that are so far gone they cant function at all.

Comments

  • edited September 2010
    Hitler's program went far beyond what you (and I, for that matter) think is an appropriate criteria for Eugenics. When it comes down to it though, its up to the parents; its their child and their responsibility.

    Personally I wouldn't allow the state to force me to keep such a child alive If I thought that they were so far retarded (in mental/physical realms etc) that their entire life would be a missery. With that being said though, I think its entirely up to the parents.
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    Yeah I'll agree he went too far with it but overall I dont disagree with the concept. It really comes down to what is more cruel. Keeping them alive or putting them down. While generally it's wrong to kill sometimes it's actually the more humane thing to do in my opinion.
  • Gary OakGary Oak Regular
    edited September 2010
    I've always thought this, but never wanted to admit it. If you aren't helping humanity then you shouldn't be around.
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    Gary Oak wrote: »
    I've always thought this, but never wanted to admit it. If you aren't helping humanity then you shouldn't be around.

    It's not a very popular idea. Then again today's society seems to get butthurt about anything. My main problem is these mutants and retards having kids when they know theres a high chance of passing on the problem. If you want to live with a problem fine but dont pass it on to kids.
  • stresstres Regular
    edited September 2010
    i never really understood the whole racial cleansing thing. I know plenty more Caucasian gene pools that deserve castration then african. Statistically, I haven't met nearly as many blacks as I have whites, but so far they seem pretty okay to me? I know plenty of white trash that should swallow the barrel.
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    stres wrote: »
    i never really understood the whole racial cleansing thing. I know plenty more Caucasian gene pools that deserve castration then african. Statistically, I haven't met nearly as many blacks as I have whites, but so far they seem pretty okay to me? I know plenty of white trash that should swallow the barrel.

    Dont get me wrong there are plenty of whites that are worthless fucks. I'm not some redneck asshole that hates a man purely based on his skin color but what I can tell you is race is more than skin color. Take Africa for example. Apartheid may have been wrong but during its use south Africa was the best place in Africa. Blacks are better at Athletics as one example. But if you take a poor white man and a rich well off black guy the whites IQ will still be higher on average. White nationalism isn't about hate. Dont you find it strange how it's always whites being called "racist". I'm more pro white than anti anything else though I will admit I have a hatred towards jews for many reasons.
  • TheGreenDoctorTheGreenDoctor Regular
    edited September 2010
    I think that they can already screen for some diseases and mental retardation at birth, so this concept is already sort of in play as someone could potentially get an abortion after learning the news, however, never underestimate the power of a parents love for their child, no matter how fucked up the kid is, they'll do everything in their power to keep it alive, and that's the problem. But on the other side, who determines how much (or how little) "functionality" is "acceptable" as the general norm? There are adults that amaze me with the fact that they're still alive, and kids with IQs that appear to surpass 98% of the population. At this point in time we can't really come up with any sort of policy for this sort of thing, and we haven't even really even begun to understand any of it for that matter. The other issue is most of the population in general seems to be stupid so its not like anything like this would really work in the first place. Misinformed people telling the "smart" people what to do is the biggest problem we have.
  • edited September 2010
    I'll tell you this though, if there's a good chance they could pass on problems/could not look after/raise children themselves, they DEFINATELY should not be allowed to reproduce.
  • edited September 2010
    Fuck Hitler for invading his neighbors. He could have used eugenics to create the most advanced society on the face of the planet, instead he lost a war and made eugenics a four letter word and an utterly unacceptable concept to the world at large. Most people don't know about the very active Eugenics programs we had until post-1945.
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    Fuck Hitler for invading his neighbors. He could have used eugenics to create the most advanced society on the face of the planet, instead he lost a war and made eugenics a four letter word and an utterly unacceptable concept to the world at large. Most people don't know about the very active Eugenics programs we had until post-1945.

    What most people dont understand is Hitler wasn't going for world conquest. He invaded Poland and those other country's to get back territory that Germany lost after WW1. Even the invasion of Russia wasn't as stupid as people make it out to be. It was either strike first or wait for Russia to attack. I blame France and the UK for getting involved. Also Japan was fucking stupid for attacking America and adding another enemy to the axis. Im well aware of the eugenics program we had here in the US it should have stayed that way too.
  • edited September 2010
    At what point do you draw the line. I have met people with fragile-x chromosone disorder, mild autism, and down's syndrome that have contributed greatly to my life, usually they wash my dishes. I get what you're saying about the severely deformed, and challenged folk, why not make a federal mandate that disposes of these persons before birth? Why not test everyone wanting to conceive before issuing "breeding permits" to eliminate even the possibility of such a person being brought into the world? While we're at it, let's tackle cancer as well. Hell no you two can't have a kid, you both have a-linear alleals on your 3rd chromosone, go find another partner.
    I do not want to live in a Radical Socialist state where the good of "the many" is upheld by dismissing entirely the rights of "the few".
    C/O
  • edited September 2010
    At what point do you draw the line. I have met people with fragile-x chromosone disorder, mild autism, and down's syndrome that have contributed greatly to my life, usually they wash my dishes. I get what you're saying about the severely deformed, and challenged folk, why not make a federal mandate that disposes of these persons before birth? Why not test everyone wanting to conceive before issuing "breeding permits" to eliminate even the possibility of such a person being brought into the world? While we're at it, let's tackle cancer as well. Hell no you two can't have a kid, you both have a-linear alleals on your 3rd chromosone, go find another partner.
    I do not want to live in a Radical Socialist state where the good of "the many" is upheld by dismissing entirely the rights of "the few".
    C/O
    I draw the line right above you
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    Not only are there warning labels on everything but if your stupid enough to get hurt you'll usually get rich thanks to our fucked legal system. I seriously saw a warning on a chainsaw once saying "warning do not touch blade while chainsaw is on".:facepalm: Like that woman who got hit by a car because google walking maps said it was ok and she got hit. Seriously just let her die don't pay her for it.
  • edited September 2010
    Unofficial motto of the Vancouver search and rescue service, "thwarting the process of natural selection for over 50 years" I agree that people with no common sense should die. If I saw someone street racing lose control and hit a tree, I would probably check out the scene for anything valuable, then let the fucker die. But this thread is not about allowing the stupid to eliminate themselves. It's about the government taking control of peoples reproductive rights and freedoms and eliminating those deemed to be a detrement to society before they have a chance to even exist.
    C/O
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited September 2010
    Unofficial motto of the Vancouver search and rescue service, "thwarting the process of natural selection for over 50 years" I agree that people with no common sense should die. If I saw someone street racing lose control and hit a tree, I would probably check out the scene for anything valuable, then let the fucker die. But this thread is not about allowing the stupid to eliminate themselves. It's about the government taking control of peoples reproductive rights and freedoms and eliminating those deemed to be a detrement to society before they have a chance to even exist.
    C/O

    I'm not a big government guy but I do believe in Eugenics. The retarded and brain dead and such are nothing but burden's on society. Mild autism is fine because they can function. Cancer doesn't make sense because the chances aren't even 40% that the offspring will get it. Plus if someone's parents have cancer the kid's still function fine. I dont like a big government but there is such a thing as life unworthy of life. nI also believe child molesters and other chronic felons should die as well.
  • SlartibartfastSlartibartfast Global Moderator -__-
    edited October 2010
    I wonder how many people choose to keep fetuses that they know will grow into retarded humans. Also, what justification would potential parents have for not aborting? I've always assumed it's just Christian guilt.
  • edited October 2010
    So if not a governmental organization, then who? Who would draw the guidelines that would define what is a viable fetus?. The medical community is a business, and if you think they would advise aborting a fetus that could potentially make them a lot of money, think again.
    C/O
  • edited October 2010
    So if not a governmental organization, then who? Who would draw the guidelines that would define what is a viable fetus?. The medical community is a business, and if you think they would advise aborting a fetus that could potentially make them a lot of money, think again.
    C/O
    Weren't we fucking rid of you, nigger lover?
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited October 2010
    So if not a governmental organization, then who? Who would draw the guidelines that would define what is a viable fetus?. The medical community is a business, and if you think they would advise aborting a fetus that could potentially make them a lot of money, think again.
    C/O

    In this case I would support a government involvement.
  • edited October 2010
    So, if a National Socialist party came to power in the U.S. would you support your elected government if they commenced a eugenics program? Even though this would be an intrusion upon the rights of the individual. What if persons choosing to bring a deformed fetus to term were made to sign an agreement making them liable for all the costs associated with it, an emancipation from the rights inherent in a socialist state? I think many would choose this option due to their religion. My point being, despite any given form of government, or any social dictates, the love of a parent for their child, and the religious views of many, would thwart any attempt at eugenics. The natural reaction of many people to the government, or anyone for that matter telling them they can't do something, is to stand up and say "I can, I will, fuck you", for better or worse.
    C/O
    fatty mc fuckface sez"I dunno about you guys, but my dog is lookin pretty cute these days"
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited October 2010
    So, if a National Socialist party came to power in the U.S. would you support your elected government if they commenced a eugenics program? Even though this would be an intrusion upon the rights of the individual. What if persons choosing to bring a deformed fetus to term were made to sign an agreement making them liable for all the costs associated with it, an emancipation from the rights inherent in a socialist state? I think many would choose this option due to their religion. My point being, despite any given form of government, or any social dictates, the love of a parent for their child, and the religious views of many, would thwart any attempt at eugenics. The natural reaction of many people to the government, or anyone for that matter telling them they can't do something, is to stand up and say "I can, I will, fuck you", for better or worse.
    C/O
    fatty mc fuckface sez"I dunno about you guys, but my dog is lookin pretty cute these days"

    If the National Socialist party won that would be the only time I'd accept a socialist form of government. I would agree that they could keep it if they paid for all costs and they would have to make sure the mutant was sterilized so it couldn't produce offspring and possibly pass on the gene.
  • edited October 2010
    I would like to bump this thread for two reasons; A. I love arguing with Sanchez, and things have been way too nice lately. B. Robert Edwards just won the Nobel prize for medicine for inventing artificial insemination.

    So, points to ponder fellow totseans;

    Do you consider artificial insemination to be a "sin", we take it for granted now, it is just another option for making a baby. But when it was first introduced there was considerable conflict over whether we were taking the process of creating a life from the hands of god and placing it mans ingenious but flawed hands. Also consider the destiny of the fertilized eggs that are aborted due to complications, and those frozen for later use.

    The concept of Eugenics involves purifying the human genome by weeding out detrimental genetics and promoting more robust strains of humanity. What if you had the chance to take it a step further and introduce genetic material to your child that was foreign to both parents, but would result in an offspring that was smarter, stronger, or immune to disease? I realize this is more genetic engineering than eugenics, but I believe it is the natural progression of the concept. If Hitler had access it IVF technology, you bet your ass he would have used it. But what if that genetic material was derived from the best qualities of many races, would we slowly develop into a "global" race, a little of this, a little of that, a planet of hardy mongrels?

    I think humanity will eventually take control of it's genetic destiny, but not in our lifetimes. Religion, racism, and mistrust of scientific principles will prevent this for many generations to come but I think the climate change and population pressures will eventually force the issue. The day will come when eugenics is no longer a dirty word associated with aborting possibly retarded fetuses. In fact I think our survival as a species may depend on it.

    C/O
    "derp?"
  • DirtySanchezDirtySanchez Regular
    edited October 2010
    I would like to bump this thread for two reasons; A. I love arguing with Sanchez, and things have been way too nice lately. B. Robert Edwards just won the Nobel prize for medicine for inventing artificial insemination.

    So, points to ponder fellow totseans;

    Do you consider artificial insemination to be a "sin", we take it for granted now, it is just another option for making a baby. But when it was first introduced there was considerable conflict over whether we were taking the process of creating a life from the hands of god and placing it mans ingenious but flawed hands. Also consider the destiny of the fertilized eggs that are aborted due to complications, and those frozen for later use.

    The concept of Eugenics involves purifying the human genome by weeding out detrimental genetics and promoting more robust strains of humanity. What if you had the chance to take it a step further and introduce genetic material to your child that was foreign to both parents, but would result in an offspring that was smarter, stronger, or immune to disease? I realize this is more genetic engineering than eugenics, but I believe it is the natural progression of the concept. If Hitler had access it IVF technology, you bet your ass he would have used it. But what if that genetic material was derived from the best qualities of many races, would we slowly develop into a "global" race, a little of this, a little of that, a planet of hardy mongrels?

    I think humanity will eventually take control of it's genetic destiny, but not in our lifetimes. Religion, racism, and mistrust of scientific principles will prevent this for many generations to come but I think the climate change and population pressures will eventually force the issue. The day will come when eugenics is no longer a dirty word associated with aborting possibly retarded fetuses. In fact I think our survival as a species may depend on it.

    C/O
    "derp?"

    Artificial insemination is not a sin. The people who say that are retards who never read a Bible. I think wants the science allows it a genetic farming of sorts would be great. Just like how dogs are bred to give the most desired traits we could do with people. This most likely wouldn't be possible but I would love to see pregnancy's go through a screening process and if the child is defective have it aborted. Minoritys as well should be stopped from reproducing. If we sterilized the defective and minority's than ethnic cleansing wouldn't even be necessary. The only time a defective should be allowed to live would be if there sterilized or used as research tool's to further medicine. I also believe death row inmates should be experimented on to further medicine. If human beings can get the resources to actually map out our genetics then this world or at least this country would be much better off. Hell if we ever went to war with another white country I would support using the women to actually set up breeding farms where there forced to get pregnant therefore increasing the number of whites. If minority's were sterilized and whites were bred in large numbers the racial question could be solved pretty quickly.
  • GreenbullGreenbull Regular
    edited October 2010
    If there's a serious disease that can be detected while abortion is still viable do it. We're going to face over population and we don't need more mouth breathers stealing air.

    Who cares if you had a down's syndrome friend. If he wasn't down's syndrome he would have been a better person, period.
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