Nixon Tapes Transcript: The Smoking Gun

TRANSCRIPT OF A RECORDING OF A MEETING BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND H.R. HALDEMAN IN THE OVAL OFFICE ON JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 TO 11:39 AM

June 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 TO 11:39 AM 3

HALDEMAN: okay -that's fine. Now, on the investi-gation, you know, the Democratic break-in thing, we're back to the-in the, the problem area because the FBI is not under control, because Gray doesn't exactly know how to control them, and they have, their investigation is now leading into some productive areas, because they've been able to trace the money, not through the money itself, but through the bank, you know, sources - the banker himself. And, and it goes in some directions we don't want it to go. Ah, also there have been some things, like an informant came in off the street to the FBI in Miami, who was a photographer or has a friend who is a photographer who developed some films through this guy, Barker, and the films had pictures of Democratic National Committee letter head documents and things. So I guess, so it's things like that that are gonna, that are filtering in. Mitchell came up with yesterday, and John Dean analyzed very carefully last night and concludes, concurs now with Mitchell's recommendation that the only way to solve this, and we're set up beautifully to do it, ah, in that and that...the only network that paid any attention to it last night was NBC...they did a massive story on the Cuban...

PRESIDENT: That's right.

HALDEMAN: thing.

PRESIDENT: Right.

HALDEMAN: That the way to handle this now is for us to have Walters call Pat Gray and just say, "Stay the hell out of this...this is ah, business here we don't want you to go any further on it." That's not an unusual development,...

PRESIDENT: Um huh. JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 TO 11:39 AM 4

HALDEMAN: ...and, uh, that would take care of it.

PRESIDENT: What about Pat Gray, ah, you mean he doesn't want to?

HALDEMAN: Pat does want to. He doesn't know how to, and he doesn't have, he doesn't have any basis for doing it. Given this, he will then have the basis. He'll call Mark Felt in, and the two of them ...and Mark Felt wants to cooperate because...

PRESIDENT: Yeah.

HALDEMAN: he's ambitious...

PRESIDENT: Yeah.

HALDEMAN: Ah, he'll call him in and say, "We've got the signal from across the river to, to put the hold on this." And that will fit rather well because the FBI agents who are working the case, at this point, feel that's what it is. This is CIA.

PRESIDENT: But they've traced the money to 'em.

HALDEMAN: Well they have, they've traced to a name, but they haven't gotten to the guy yet.

PRESIDENT: Would it be somebody here?

HALDEMAN: Ken Dahlberg.

PRESIDENT: Who the hell is Ken Dahlberg?

HALDEMAN: He's ah, he gave $25,000 in Minnesota and ah, the check went directly in to this, to this guy Barker.

PRESIDENT: Maybe he's a ...bum. JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 TO 11:39 AM 5

PRESIDENT: He didn't get this from the committee though, from Stans.

HALDEMAN: Yeah. It is. It is. It's directly traceable and there's some more through some Texas people in--that went to the Mexican bank which they can also trace to the Mexican bank...they'll get their names today. And pause)

PRESIDENT: Well, I mean, ah, there's no way... I'm just thinking if they don't cooperate, what do they say? They they, they were approached by the Cubans. That's what Dahlberg has to say, the Texans too. Is that the idea?

HALDEMAN: Well, if they will. But then we're relying on more and more people all the time. That's the problem. And ah, they'll stop if we could, if we take this other step.

PRESIDENT: All right. Fine.

HALDEMAN: And, and they seem to feel the thing to do is get them to stop?

PRESIDENT: Right, fine.

HALDEMAN: They say the only way to do that is from White House instructions. And it's got to be to Helms and, ah, what's his name...? Walters.

PRESIDENT: Walters.

HALDEMAN: And the proposal would be that Ehrlichman (coughs) and I call them in

PRESIDENT: All right, fine.

HALDEMAN: and say, ah... JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 TO 11:39 AM 6

PRESIDENT: How do you call him in, I mean you just, well, we protected Helms from one hell of a lot of things.

HALDEMAN: That's what Ehrlichman says.

PRESIDENT: Of course, this is a, this is a Hunt, you will-that will uncover a lot of things. You open that scab there's a hell of a lot of things and that we just feel that it would be very detrimental to have this thing go any further. This involves these Cubans, Hunt, and a lot of hanky-panky that we have nothing to do with ourselves. Well what the hell, did Mitchell know about this thing to any much of a degree?

HALDEMAN: I think so. I don 't think he knew the details, but I think he knew.

PRESIDENT: He didn't know how it was going to be handled though, with Dahlberg and the Texans and so forth? Well who was the asshole that did? (Unintelligible) Is it Liddy? Is that the fellow? He must be a little nuts.

HALDEMAN: He is.

PRESIDENT: I mean he just isn't well screwed on is he? Isn't that the problem?

HALDEMAN: No, but he was under pressure, apparently, to get more information, and as he got more pressure, he pushed the people harder to move harder on...

PRESIDENT: Pressure from Mitchell?

HALDEMAN: Apparently.

PRESIDENT: Oh, Mitchell, Mitchell was at the point that you made on this, that exactly what I need from you is on the--

HALDEMAN: Gemstone, yeah. JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 TO 11:39 AM 7

PRESIDENT: All right, fine, I understand it all. We won't second-guess Mitchell and the rest. Thank God it wasn't Colson.

HALDEMAN: The FBI interviewed Colson yesterday. They determined that would be a good thing to do.

PRESIDENT: Um hum.

HALDEMAN: Ah, to have him take a...

PRESIDENT: Um hum.

HALDEMAN: An interrogation, which he did, and that, the FBI guys working the case had concluded that there were one or two possibilities, one, that this was a White House, they don't think that there is anything at the Election Committee, they think it was either a White House operation and they had some obscure reasons for it, non political,...

PRESIDENT: Uh huh.

HALDEMAN: or it was a...

PRESIDENT: Cuban thing-

HALDEMAN: Cubans and the CIA. And after their interrogation of, of...

PRESIDENT: Colson.

HALDEMAN: Colson, yesterday, they concluded it was not the White House, but are now convinced it is a CIA thing, so the CIA turn off would...

PRESIDENT: Well, not sure of their analysis, I'm not going to get that involved. I'm (unintelligible).

HALDEMAN: No, sir. We don't want you to. JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 to 11:39 AM 8 (repl. 10/28/74)

PRESIDENT: You call them in.

PRESIDENT: Good. Good deal! Play it tough. That's the way they play it and that's the way we are going to play it.

HALDEMAN: O.K. We'll do it.

PRESIDENT: Yeah, when I saw that news summary item, I of course knew it was a bunch of crap, but I thought ah, well it's good to have them off on this wild hair thing because when they start bugging us, which they have, we'll know our little boys will not know how to handle it. I hope they will though. You never know. Maybe, you think about it. Good!

HALDEMAN: Mosbacher has resigned.

PRESIDENT: Oh yeah?

HALDEMAN: As we expected he would.

PRESIDENT: Yeah.

HALDEMAN: He's going back to private life (unintelligible) Do you want to sign this or should I send it to Rose?

PRESIDENT: Ah, yeah (scratching noise)

HALDEMAN: Do you want to release it?

PRESIDENT: O.K. Great. Good job, Bob.

HALDEMAN: Kissinger?

PRESIDENT: Huh? That's a joke.

HALDEMAN: Is it? Ah, O.K. JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10:04 TO 11:39 AM 16

PRESIDENT: I don't know, maybe it isn't worth going out and talking (unintelligible) Maybe it is.

HALDEMAN: Well, it's a close call. Ah, Ehrlichman though you'd, you probably, he, he...

PRESIDENT: What?

HALDEMAN: Well, he said you probably didn't need it. He didn't think you should, now at all. He said he felt fine doing it.

PRESIDENT: He did? The question, the point is, does he think everybody is going to understand about the bussing?

HALDEMAN: That's right.

PRESIDENT: And, ah, well Lonzo says no.

HALDEMAN: Well, this, the fact is somewhere in between, I think, because I think that is missing some...

PRESIDENT: Well, if the fact is somewhere in between, we better do it.

HALDEMAN: Yeah, I think Mitchell says, "Hell yes. Anything we can hit on at anytime we get the chance...and we've got a reason for doing it... do it." **********

PRESIDENT: When you get in these people when you...get these people in, say: "Look, the problem is that this will open the whole, the whole Bay of Pigs thing, and the President just feels that" ah, without going into the details... don't, don't lie to them to the extent to say there is no involvement, but just say this is sort of a comedy of errors, bizarre, without getting into it, "the President believes that it is going to open the whole Bay of Pigs thing up again. And, ah because these people are plugging for, for keeps and that they should call the FBI in and say that we wish for the country, don't go any further into this case", period! JUNE 23, 1972 FROM 10 04 TO 11:39 AM 17

HALDEMAN: OK

PRESIDENT: That's the way to put it, do it straight (Unintelligible)

HALDEMAN: Get more done for our cause by the opposition than by us at this point.

PRESIDENT: You think so?

HALDEMAN: I think so, yeah.

**********

PRESIDENT: Still (unintelligible) moves (unintelligible)very close election (unintelligible) he keeps saying if he moves a little-

HALDEMAN: They're all... that's the whole thing. The Washington Post said it in it's lead editorial today. Another "McGovern's got to change his position," and that that would be a good thing, that's constructive. Ah, the white wash for change.

PRESIDENT: Post prints the news so they'll say that is perfectly all right.

HALDEMAN: Cause then they are saying...on the other hand... that maybe we're not so smart. We have to admire the progress he's made on the basis of the position he's taken and maybe he's right and we're wrong.

PRESIDENT: To be very (unintelligible) (laughs).

HALDEMAN: Sitting in Miami played into our hand a little bit.

PRESIDENT: No.

HALDEMAN: They, ah eliminated their law prohibiting male homosexuals from wearing female clothing, now the boys can all put on their dresses... so the gay lib is going to turn out 6,000 fags to (laughs). I hope they (unintelligible) them.

PRESIDENT: How did they(unintelligible)

TRANSCRIPT OF A RECORDING OF A MEETING BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND H. R. HALDEMAN, THE OVAL OFFICE, JUNE 23, 1972, FROM 1:04 P.M. TO 1:13 P.M.

(Background noise, sound of writing and some unintelligible conversation)

HALDEMAN: (On the phone) (Unintelligible) Where are they? Okay. I'll be up in just a minute.

(40 second pause, with sounds of writing)

HALDEMAN: I see a time way back (unintelligible) might find out about that report before we do anything.

PRESIDENT: (Unintelligible)

(35 second pause)

PRESIDENT: Okay (unintelligible) and, ah, just, just postpone the (unintelligible, with noises) hearings (15 second unintelligible, with noises) and all that garbage. Just say that I have to take a look at the primaries (unintelligible) recover (unintelligible) I just don't (unintelligible)very bad, to have this fellow Hunt, ah, you know, ah, it's, he, he knows too damn much and he was involved, we happen to know that. And that it gets out that the whole, this is all involved in the Cuban thing, that it's a fiasco, and it's going to make the FB, ah CIA look bad, it's going to make Hunt look bad, and it's likely to blow the whole, uh, Bay of Pigs thing which we think would be very unfortunate for CIA and for the country at this time, and for American foreign policy, and he just better tough it and lay it on them. Isn't that what you...

HALDEMAN: Yeah, that's, that's the basis we'll do it on and just leave it at that.

PRESIDENT: I don't want them to get any ideas we're doing it because our concern is political.

JUNE 23, 1973, FROM 1:04 P.M. TO 1:13 P.M.

HALDEMAN: Right.

PRESIDENT: And at the same time, I wouldn't tell them it is not political

HALDEMAN: Right.

PRESIDENT: I would just say "Look, it's because o the Hunt involvement," just say (unintelligible, with noise) sort of thing, the whole cover is, uh, basically this (unintelligible).

HALDEMAN: (Unintelligible) Well they've got some pretty good ideas on this need thing.

PRESIDENT: George Schultz did a good paper on that, I read it... (Unintelligible voices heard leaving the room)