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Computer Privacy Digest Vol 2 #012
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Computer Privacy Digest Wed, 03 Feb 93 Volume 2 : Issue: 012
Today's Topics: Moderator: Dennis G. Rears
Last Words on Speed Limits/Radar Detectors
Re: Speed Limits
Re: Speed Limits
Re: Radar Detector Prohib
Re: Radar Detector Prohib
Radar Detectors vs. Poor Driving Habits
The Computer Privacy Digest is a forum for discussion on the
effect of technology on privacy. The digest is moderated and
gatewayed into the USENET newsgroup comp.society.privacy
(Moderated). Submissions should be sent to
[email protected] and administrative requests to
[email protected].
Back issues are available via anonymous ftp on ftp.pica.army.mil
[129.139.160.133].
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Date: Wed, 3 Feb 93 17:26:24 EST
From: Computer Privacy List Moderator <[email protected]>
Subject: Last Words on Speed Limits/Radar Detectors
As promised the discussions on speed limits and radar detectors will
end with the publication of this digest or for USENET readers the next
5 articles. The subject really doesn't have anything to do with
privacy or technology.
In the future I plan to cut off nonrelavant threads a lot sooner.
dennis
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From: Harry Erwin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Speed Limits
Organization: TRW Systems Division, Fairfax VA
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 01:06:29 GMT
The reasonable and proper defense is obsolete in California and has been
for many years.
WHMurray points out that speed limits are generally set at the 85th
percentile speed. That's ideal, and is the case in California according to
my uncle, a senior traffic engineer. It is not the case in Virginia, where
it appears the speed limits are set at about the 35th percentile speed.
Studies have shown, BTW, that there is wide variation in what people
regard as a reasonable and proper speed on a given road. The standard
deviation is about 10 MPH based on the data I've seen. That's a lot of
variation.
Cheers,
--
Harry Erwin
Internet: [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Speed Limits
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 18:09:32 GMT
In <[email protected]> [email protected] writes:
>>You would probably find more people willing to obey speed limits
>>if they were actually set based on local road conditions and
>>necessary reaction times.
>For most roads that is exactly how they are set. The highway engineer
>collects information on the actual speed travelled and the speed limit
>is set at the 85 percentile rounded to the nearest 5 MPH. The exception
>to this rule is when the speed limit is set by law; i.e., when it is set
>for political reasons.
In Minnesota, the highway engineer must state a maximum 'safe design
speed' in the plans. Most of the highways are rated for 75 Mph.
This is done every time a reconstruction project is taken up.
Some highway speeds are set for political reasons, but most
are for design reasons. On occasion, it is because a State Trooper
has to scoop goo off a particular spot in the highway
more than twice a year.
------------------------------
From: Richard Pierson <[email protected].com>
Subject: Re: Radar Detector Prohib
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 03:47:17 GMT
The New Jersey Turnpike has signs on all the bridges/overpasses with
changeable signs for changing the speed limit due to weather.fog.
accidents.construction. etc, why dont all states have this.
If you had any concept of driving for a living instead of sitting
behind a desk and commuting once in a while you would own 2 at least (1
spare) in this highly comp- etitive business world it is impossible to
drive the speed limit and survive. Personally I hate driving during the
"rush hours" most of you commuter drivers are extremely poor at best
and downright dangerous at worst. I consider myself a professional
even though I'm in an office right now, for 12 years I drove in excess
of 60,000 miles a year in the NY,NJ,PA,CT states and every close call I
have ever been involved in was during commuter hours. Have any of you
tried to maintain a safe distance from the car in front of you, it's
impossible, modern commuters abhor empty space in front of you and
insist on filling it as quickly as you make it. How about the AH who
wants to make it one more car space in a construction merge. My
favorite though is the tractor trailers doing the 1mph pass on hills
and taking 3 out of four lanes to do it.There are a lot of CDL's that
should not be driving. But there are more "commuters" by far that
should never be let behind the wheel.
I have two detectors, one front and one rear built into my truck with
indicators embeded in the instrument panel. I would sooner go
somewhere without my wallet before I would go without a detector, in
the future it is going to get much worse as the states try to increase
revenue and use police to do it.
That same radar system that the greyhound busses use is also triggered
by police radar and has caused quite a few rear enders when the bus
slams on the brakes (they can stop faster than a car when empty) for no
reason other than a trooper had is unit on going the other way or was
parked and "monitoring traffic". That radar BTW is for collision
avoidence and works on the Ka band, in the near future it will come
standard on the high end production cars and gradually filter down. I
don't remember the "trade name" but have read alot about it in Autoweek
a few years ago. and It keeps cropping up every so often. The police
dont want it sold cause it screws up their Ka band radar. (hmmmmm ecm
in disguise)
--
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES
and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH #2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: [email protected].com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
------------------------------
From: "david.g.lewis" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Radar Detector Prohib
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 14:17:51 GMT
In article <[email protected]> Peter Swanson <[email protected]> writes:
>In article <[email protected]> oracle!us.oracle.[email protected] (Dave Dargo) w:
>>This assumes that the government's posted speed limit is the correct
>>speed limit to be able to observe such things based on the road
>>conditions. The current max of 65 (still 55 in most places) has
>>nothing to do with road conditions or reaction times but rather
>>with some vague in-defensible (IMHO) federal government policy.
>>
>How do you propose to take into account varying road conditions?
>The same road that would be safe at 80mph in sunny weather may
>be unsafe at 65mph in rain, unsafe at 40mph in fog or blizzard,
>and unsafe at 5mph in freezing rain. You don't honestly expect
>someone to check road conditions and change the speed limit signs
>appropriately, do you?
What about drivers who have a clue what they're doing behind the wheel
of an automobile? If a road is unsafe at 40mph, it doesn't matter
whether the speed limit is 55, 65, 75, or 105, any speed limit is
irrelevant and the driver must use his or her judgement.
Of course, expecting drivers to have more than the minimum competency
required to find the steering wheel and testing them to verify it would
probably raise screams of discrimination against low-income and
disadvantaged drivers who don't have the opportunity to learn what the
hell they're doing and who *need* their cars to drive to wherever it is
they're going...
dave
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From: Paul Olson <[email protected]>
Subject: Radar Detectors vs. Poor Driving Habits
Organization: Mission Operations and Data Systems
Date: 1 Feb 1993 11:52 EST
Well, to add my $0.02 worth before Tuesday (moderator - thanks for
removing the thread)...
I use a radar detector, just to let everyone know up front. I have a
couple of comments.
1) If Greyhound wants to use radar for their busses, fine. If the
frequency of their radar is causing problems for them, they should
petition the FCC for use of a non-X, K, Ka or wideband Ka frequency.
They created their own problem. It shouldn't fall to the rest of us to
fix it, although I do think it's a good idea for those of us who use
detectors to keep this in mind when passing busses.
2) People in this country seem to lack common sense when it comes to
driving in the fast lane. There is a simple rule to follow: if you're
in the fast lane, and you see someone gaining on you from behind, move
to the right. I can't count the number of times I've had people drive
55 in the fast lane, and REFUSE to give up the lane. These
self-appointed speed enforcers pose a more dangerous threat than people
driving faster than the speed limit, both from a rear-ending
possibility to someone pulling a gun on you, or throwing a handful of
pennies at your car as they pass. Here around D.C., I've even seen
people side-swipe their cars into those refusing to give up the fast
lane. Like I said, move over, and the world will be a happier place.
3) Those using the slow lanes to pass should do so only when
necessary. I don't agree with zipping between lanes just for the fun
of it. If you're travelling at a higher rate of speed than the other
traffic, stay to the left. Be patient and allow the driver in front of
you to move over. If he refuses once a free space opens up, then pass
on the right.
4) For the person who used Latin American justice systems for
justifying his stance to pronounce the users of radar detectors guilty
until proven innocent, get an atlas and look up the name of the country
in which you live. I think you'll find it to say U.S.A. It just so
happens that the legal system in THAT country is innocent until proven
guilty. (Sorry if you're from some other country. I didn't save the
post.)
5) If the government really wanted to eliminate radar detectors and
control speed instead of using speeding tickets as a revenue source,
they'd do a couple of things: a) use non-standard cars for unmarked
units. Here in MD, the state buys in large orders, so most of the
state patrol cars are Chevy Caprice's, even the unmarked units,
although a few Ford Taurus' are showing up. The best unmarked unit
I've ever seen was a 1975 rusty Ford LTD; b) buy some cheap, movable
microwave transmitters, and set them up along the highway. If I can't
tell the difference between a cop and a dummy transmitter, I'll slow
down. The solutions are simple. The political will is not. Banning
detectors isn't going to eliminate them, just as D.C.'s handgun ban
hasn't eliminated handguns, and prohibition didn't eliminate alcohol
(although it did make for a great T.V. series, The Untouchables).
__ Paul J. Olson - VAX Systems Manager & WAC Amiga SIG Chairman
C= /// Voice - 301/286-4246, 301725-5501
__ /// DECnet- DSTL86::OLSON
\\\/// Internet - [email protected]
\XX/ Disclaimer: Statements in my messages are wholely my own.
AMIGA "Ignorance is a renewable resource." -- P.J. O'Rourke
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End of Computer Privacy Digest V2 #012
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